Author Topic: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)  (Read 536032 times)

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1240 on: May 19, 2020, 08:42:03 PM »
I didnt find it in the rules but according to what you need to answer when you certify for UI, the $504 limit doesnt apply if your income is from SE



2. How many days did you work, including self-employment, during the week ending 5/17/2020?
 
2a. Excluding earnings from self-employment, did you earn more than $504?
Yes No NA
The first question they ask INCLUDING SE the 2nd question they ask EXCLUDING SE

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1241 on: May 19, 2020, 08:43:57 PM »
I'm aware but a) that's because you're usually not entitled to UI when self-employed only. Now with PUA it can't possibly be that you can earn your usual $ and certify for UI, otherwise it wouldn't be a UI program for the self-employed unemployed... B) https://www.labor.ny.gov/ui/claimantinfo/onceyouhaveappliedfaq.shtm#9
I don't know what could or couldn't be possible, just answer the questions honestly and receive whatever is legal

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1242 on: May 19, 2020, 08:46:25 PM »
If you are not working and receiving $600 from PPP SE, you answer YES to the 2nd question, you could be found guilty for lying to a government agency :P

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1243 on: May 19, 2020, 09:01:57 PM »
The question is not about prior employment, its about current employment.
You were an employee, fired from your job, they are asking are you currently working? Are you CURRENTLY receiving $504 from employment EXCLUDING CURRENT SELF EMPLOYMENT.



The attached link is only about working not about earnings. If you receive $600 a week from PPP SE without working you should be able to certify weekly for benefits
Again, these questions are crafted for W2 employees who receive UI based on W2 wages. It is not written for SE income... PUA rules by state are based on DUA rules so here's the DUA rule for earning. Clearly states that it can't exceed $504.

https://www.labor.ny.gov/ui/claimantinfo/SpecialProvisions.shtm#DUA7

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1244 on: May 19, 2020, 09:03:05 PM »
Again, these questions are crafted for W2 employees who receive UI based on W2 wages. It is not written for SE income... PUA rules by state are based on DUA rules so here's the DUA rule for earning. Clearly states that it can't exceed $504.

https://www.labor.ny.gov/ui/claimantinfo/SpecialProvisions.shtm#DUA7
I prefer not continue with this point. I'm sure you can understand that if I'm going on PUA and certifying that I'm unemployed, I can't tell the PPP at the same time that I've been rehired and am employed.

Offline beeweegee

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1245 on: May 19, 2020, 10:06:07 PM »
Are there requirements or criteria to be considered a seasonal 1099 worker? Say someone who fixes school desks and makes more money during certain months of the school year, and perhaps less in the summer due to less use. Or any contractor who works in a school, but also gets (less) work in the summer. Would that qualify?

And if so, if they use, say, Feb 15 - June 30, 2019 to calculate their loan amount, how would loan forgiveness work if they aren't using 8/52?

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1246 on: May 19, 2020, 10:09:06 PM »
And if so, if they use, say, Feb 15 - June 30, 2019 to calculate their loan amount, how would loan forgiveness work if they aren't using 8/52?

This is till an outstanding issue for new 2020 businesses as well. What's owner comp forgiveness?

Per https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2020-04-20/pdf/2020-08257.pdf it says that: SBA will issue additional guidance for those individuals with self-employment income who: (i) Were not in operation in 2019 but who were in operation on February 15, 2020, and (ii) will file a Form 1040 Schedule C for 2020.

I reached to the SBA after the forgiveness application was released to get clarity and was told by the rep that since she doesn't have an answer, her manager will call me back. That was Sunday so still waiting.

Offline AsherO

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1247 on: May 19, 2020, 10:14:39 PM »
It took BlueVine a few hours to send me loan docs once they had SBA approval, one business day later the funds were in my account.

Dime told me on May 1st that SBA approved my loan, I just got an email from them today urging me to open a Checking Account with them because "Your application will be coming up for review in very short order.", really now? According to SBA rules I was supposed to be funded a long time ago. I'm waiting for them to tell me I'm approved so I can tell them I don't want an account with them and just want my funds, want to see what they say.
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Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1248 on: May 20, 2020, 12:06:13 AM »
I prefer not continue with this point. I'm sure you can understand that if I'm going on PUA and certifying that I'm unemployed, I can't tell the PPP at the same time that I've been rehired and am employed.
I don't understand why feelings are being mixed into this when ppl could lose out $8,832 in UI.
For PPP you don't have to certify that you are rehired or employed, you just have to write the amount SE owner received in compensation. Unemployment specifically excludes SE income as long as you didn't work for 4 days,
I would suggest an update in the WIKI of the "Unemployment Help" thread.



Btw according to the DOL certification application if you work 3 days SE and you earn more than $504 a week, you are still eligible for partial UI

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1249 on: May 20, 2020, 12:13:56 AM »
I don't understand why feelings are being mixed into this when ppl could lose out $8,832 in UI.
For PPP you don't have to certify that you are rehired or employed, you just have to write the amount SE owner received in compensation. Unemployment specifically excludes SE income as long as you didn't work for 4 days,
I would suggest an update in the WIKI of the "Unemployment Help" thread.



Btw according to the DOL certification application if you work 3 days SE and you earn more than $504 a week, you are still eligible for partial UI

It's not about my feelings, it's about the legalities of it.

For PPP you need to have an FTE that's receiving those owner comp funds. Agreed?

Unemployment only excludes SE income if you're on regular UI. Think about it: if you're approved for PUA because you've lost your SE income, how can you still file for PUA when you've regained it for 8 weeks? (Again, look at the DUA link. DUA is intended for SE folk...)

It's unethical (at best) from the PPP standpoint and illegal from the UI standpoint. That's my take on it, as someone who studies legal docs A LOT. You can have a differing opinion but I wouldn't recommend it if asked.

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1250 on: May 20, 2020, 12:20:13 AM »
It's not about my feelings, it's about the legalities of it.

For PPP you need to have an FTE that's receiving those owner comp funds. Agreed?

Unemployment only excludes SE income if you're on regular UI. Think about it: if you're approved for PUA because you've lost your SE income, how can you still file for PUA when you've regained it for 8 weeks? (Again, look at the DUA link. DUA is intended for SE folk...)

It's unethical (at best) from the PPP standpoint and illegal from the UI standpoint. That's my take on it, as someone who studies legal docs A LOT. You can have a differing opinion but I wouldn't recommend it if asked.

For PPP you need to have an FTE that's receiving those owner comp funds. Agreed?

NO. Line 9 doesnt have FTE question

Full-Time Equivalency (FTE) Reduction CalculationIf you have not reduced the number of employees or the average paid hours of your employees between January 1, 2020 and the end of the Covered Period,



Offline yitz1000

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1251 on: May 20, 2020, 12:20:36 AM »
It's not about my feelings, it's about the legalities of it.

For PPP you need to have an FTE that's receiving those owner comp funds. Agreed?

Unemployment only excludes SE income if you're on regular UI. Think about it: if you're approved for PUA because you've lost your SE income, how can you still file for PUA when you've regained it for 8 weeks? (Again, look at the DUA link. DUA is intended for SE folk...)

It's unethical (at best) from the PPP standpoint and illegal from the UI standpoint. That's my take on it, as someone who studies legal docs A LOT. You can have a differing opinion but I wouldn't recommend it if asked.
What about accepting UI for a  period prior to receiving PPP? Such as in a scenario where one applied for both knowing about eligibility for UI and the uncertainty off PPP approval.

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1252 on: May 20, 2020, 12:21:39 AM »
What about accepting UI for a  period prior to receiving PPP? Such as in a scenario where one applied for both knowing about eligibility for UI and the uncertainty off PPP approval.
You can legitimately be on UI before and after those 8 weeks. That's not an issue.

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1253 on: May 20, 2020, 12:22:18 AM »
For PPP you need to have an FTE that's receiving those owner comp funds. Agreed?

NO. Line 9 doesnt have FTE question

Full-Time Equivalency (FTE) Reduction CalculationIf you have not reduced the number of employees or the average paid hours of your employees between January 1, 2020 and the end of the Covered Period,
If you follow the application you'll see that the owner is 1 FTE. If you put in 0 as the FTE you'll get 0 forgiveness.

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1254 on: May 20, 2020, 12:26:12 AM »
It's not about my feelings, it's about the legalities of it.


Unemployment only excludes SE income if you're on regular UI. Think about it: if you're approved for PUA because you've lost your SE income, how can you still file for PUA when you've regained it for 8 weeks? (Again, look at the DUA link. DUA is intended for SE folk...)


Again, You filed for unemployed, when you certify each week UI asks you 2 questions, Are you Unemployed? Do you earn more than $504 EXCLUDING SE INCOME.

You answer those 2 questions with the full truth How can you write that it is illegal?


As I wrote earlier according to the UI certification if by regular UI before the pandemic, you had a regular w-2 job, you were fired, filed UI, started a new SE business working only 3 days a week earning $1,000 a week, you can continue to file for partial UI

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1255 on: May 20, 2020, 12:29:24 AM »
If you follow the application you'll see that the owner is 1 FTE. If you put in 0 as the FTE you'll get 0 forgiveness.
Don't see that. You just need to make a check on the box in Line 10 that you didnt reduce any employees and enter 1.0 on line 13

Offline AsherO

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1256 on: May 20, 2020, 12:47:05 AM »
For PPP you need to have an FTE that's receiving those owner comp funds. Agreed?

What if, hypothetically speaking, your self employment income is just from one day a week (e.g. a 1099 weekend clergy-person). Is that an FTE for PPP?

Can that person certify with UI/PUA that they only worked one day a week?
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Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1257 on: May 20, 2020, 12:51:58 AM »
What if, hypothetically speaking, your self employment income is just from one day a week (e.g. a 1099 weekend clergy-person). Is that an FTE for PPP?

Can that person certify with UI/PUA that they only worked one day a week?

If it's always a one-day-a-week thing they should be good as there's no workforce reduction.

They should be eligible for partial UI/PUA because they're not in violation of days worked. In regards to income allowed, I'm sure you can see my opinion as well as the opposing one upthread.

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1258 on: May 20, 2020, 01:00:24 AM »
https://labor.ny.gov/formsdocs/ui/TC318.3e.pdf
Page 34


Weekly Certification QuestionsWhen you claim weekly benefits, you will be asked questions about a week that began on a Monday and ended on a Sunday. Pay careful attention to the dates.

• How many days did you work, including self-employment, during the week ending (date)?• “Work” means any service you performed for a business or person on any day in the week, even if it was only for an hour or less. This includes work you did in self-employment or on a freelance basis, even if you were not paid. • If you worked on any days, you will be asked: “Excluding earnings from self-employment, did you earn more than $504?”• If you worked at all during the week, you must indicate if you earned more than $504 gross before taxes. This does not include any money earned in self-employment.

Offline LAX_Esq

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1259 on: May 20, 2020, 02:25:09 PM »
Looks like the forgiveness app is available: https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/3245-0407-SBA-Form-3508-PPP-Forgiveness-Application.pdf

I'm a S-Corp law firm who only employs myself. I received a $20,800 loan. It looks like I can only get forgiveness for paying myself $15,835 per week.

Can I hire my wife and pay her a salary and have that amount be forgiven? I don't see why not?