Poll

Will there be sleep away summer camp this year?

Yes
12 (20.7%)
NO
33 (56.9%)
Only second month
13 (22.4%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Voting closed: April 17, 2020, 03:42:36 PM

Author Topic: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?  (Read 90154 times)

Offline avromie7

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #480 on: June 16, 2020, 01:04:12 PM »
Is it necessary to publicly publish these plans?
I'm sure they have one and anyway what are the chances of an in camp outbreak with the iron clad rules they have?
The chances that it happens in an individual camp are quite low, the chances that it happens in at least 1 or frum camps nationwide is almost guaranteed.
I would say this is probably because people are most likely to live with someone in their age group, a 55 y/o is most likely to live with a 55 y/o. If you notice, a 55 y/o is more likely to transmit to or from a 25 y/o than to or from a 40 y/o. The most likely reason is because a 55 y/o is more likely to have a 25 y/o child living with them or visiting often than a 40 y/o. From what I see, all this chart shows (at least about adults) is who is most likely to live with whom.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Mikes@Micro

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #481 on: June 16, 2020, 02:42:30 PM »
The chances that it happens in an individual camp are quite low, the chances that it happens in at least 1 or frum camps nationwide is almost guaranteed. I would say this is probably because people are most likely to live with someone in their age group, a 55 y/o is most likely to live with a 55 y/o. If you notice, a 55 y/o is more likely to transmit to or from a 25 y/o than to or from a 40 y/o. The most likely reason is because a 55 y/o is more likely to have a 25 y/o child living with them or visiting often than a 40 y/o. From what I see, all this chart shows (at least about adults) is who is most likely to live with whom.
If a 55 yr old most likely lives with another 55 yr old and 22 with 22 then would we have a shidduch crisis?
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Offline ari3

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #482 on: June 16, 2020, 03:33:33 PM »
B) a published emergency response plan is absolutely necessary. As a parent, why would you just assume camp has a plan? And why wouldn't you want to know what it is, in case it involves you having to pick up your kid halfway across the country?

having an emergency response plan is a necessity. having one publicly available for the curios anonymous people on the internet is not. I assume if a parent with valid concerns contacts them they would be glad to provide more information

Offline Mikes@Micro

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #483 on: June 16, 2020, 03:38:21 PM »
having an emergency response plan is a necessity. having one publicly available for the curios anonymous people on the internet is not. I assume if a parent with valid concerns contacts them they would be glad to provide more information
Well said. If it was my job to professionally design plans I would have  zero interest in the internet peanut gallery picking it apart. Even if it was one as lovely as DDF
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #484 on: June 16, 2020, 04:23:35 PM »
Well said. If it was my job to professionally design plans I would have  zero interest in the internet peanut gallery picking it apart. Even if it was one as lovely as DDF

By the same premise, if I was running a camp I wouldn't want to post my learning curriculum, my hashkafos, or my activities, because maybe people will find fault with them.

having an emergency response plan is a necessity. having one publicly available for the curios anonymous people on the internet is not. I assume if a parent with valid concerns contacts them they would be glad to provide more information

Frankly, this aren't normal times and we're not talking about posting active shooter response scenarios on the off chance a camp c"v is attacked. We're in the midst of a pandemic that no one quite understands, and every single camp should be proactive in letting parents know what the parents can expect from the camp and what the camp expects of the parents in case of an outbreak. If the camp isn't communicating that to the parents on their own, every single parent should be calling the camp office and finding out before paying the camp a penny.

From the camps' perspective, it seems inefficient to explain the plan 200-1000 times over the phone to individual parents. I'd also be concerned if parents aren't reaching out to me as a camp administrator, because it shows a lack of awareness (or caring) for the sensitive realities. There's a good chance I'll need their cooperation if kids need to be sent home or picked up earlier than planned, and parents who aren't prepared are liabilities.
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Offline Mikes@Micro

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #485 on: June 16, 2020, 04:34:40 PM »
By the same premise, if I was running a camp I wouldn't want to post my learning curriculum, my hashkafos, or my activities, because maybe people will find fault with them.

Frankly, this aren't normal times and we're not talking about posting active shooter response scenarios on the off chance a camp c"v is attacked. We're in the midst of a pandemic that no one quite understands, and every single camp should be proactive in letting parents know what the parents can expect from the camp and what the camp expects of the parents in case of an outbreak. If the camp isn't communicating that to the parents on their own, every single parent should be calling the camp office and finding out before paying the camp a penny.

From the camps' perspective, it seems inefficient to explain the plan 200-1000 times over the phone to individual parents. I'd also be concerned if parents aren't reaching out to me as a camp administrator, because it shows a lack of awareness (or caring) for the sensitive realities. There's a good chance I'll need their cooperation if kids need to be sent home or picked up earlier than planned, and parents who aren't prepared are liabilities.
Most camps don't post detailed descriptions of their heashkafos and curriculum... just enough to make it sound fun and exciting. These plans are different as you have many parents thinking emotionally instead of logically and seeing such a plan would just cause them to panic.

I think they would email upon request not repeat over the phone.

As to your second point you may not have noticed but frankly many parents don't care.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #486 on: June 16, 2020, 04:59:38 PM »
you may not have noticed but frankly many parents don't care.

Yea... I don't understand this at all. Considering all we don't know about the long term impact of this virus, how can parents not care?
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Offline yaakov35

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #487 on: June 16, 2020, 05:28:13 PM »
Seems like there's a disconnect here with people who don't live in NYC area. Most people had, my whole family had, and I'm sending my kids to camp no issue and so are all my neighbors.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #488 on: June 16, 2020, 05:41:38 PM »
Seems like there's a disconnect here with people who don't live in NYC area. Most people had, my whole family had, and I'm sending my kids to camp no issue and so are all my neighbors.

There definitely seems to be a disconnect, but I'm not understanding what one has to do with the other. I didn't say don't send the kids to camp. Why wouldn't you want to know how the camp would react to a potential outbreak?
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #489 on: June 16, 2020, 06:18:04 PM »
Yea... I don't understand this at all. Considering all we don't know about the long term impact of this virus, how can parents not care?

They sure do care. They care enough to give their kids the opportunity to go to camp and enjoy themselves after 3-4 months of misery

There definitely seems to be a disconnect, but I'm not understanding what one has to do with the other. I didn't say don't send the kids to camp. Why wouldn't you want to know how the camp would react to a potential outbreak?

Because what's the likelihood of an outbreak? Just as much as a flu outbreak or some other virus and nobody ever wanted to know the plan for how to react to that.

Don't kid yourself but if there won't be an outbreak in day camp there won't all of a sudden be one in camp.

Offline yaakov35

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #490 on: June 16, 2020, 06:48:15 PM »
There definitely seems to be a disconnect, but I'm not understanding what one has to do with the other. I didn't say don't send the kids to camp. Why wouldn't you want to know how the camp would react to a potential outbreak?
Outbreak? Its really not a big deal for kids and considering they've been home for last 3 months its a risk plenty of parents are willing to take.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #491 on: June 16, 2020, 06:59:25 PM »
They sure do care. They care enough to give their kids the opportunity to go to camp and enjoy themselves after 3-4 months of misery

Because what's the likelihood of an outbreak? Just as much as a flu outbreak or some other virus and nobody ever wanted to know the plan for how to react to that.

Don't kid yourself but if there won't be an outbreak in day camp there won't all of a sudden be one in camp.

"3-4 months of misery" and we still have comparisons to "a flu outbreak or some other virus?"

I don't disagree about the likelihood of a day camp outbreak, but I fail to see how one exempts the other. Also, a day camp is local, so outbreak response is fairly simple. Overnight camps are a little more complex than that.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #492 on: June 16, 2020, 07:00:25 PM »
How do we know that camps have not sent out their plan/protocol to their registered campers?
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #493 on: June 16, 2020, 07:02:10 PM »
Outbreak? Its really not a big deal for kids and considering they've been home for last 3 months its a risk plenty of parents are willing to take.

Again, I'm not asking about sending or not sending. I understand the reasoning for sending, and I find myself in a situation where I'm seriously considering sending to a local overnight camp. I just want to know why taking risks means ignoring any and all responsibilities and due diligence.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #494 on: June 16, 2020, 07:03:17 PM »
How do we know that camps have not sent out their plan/protocol to their registered campers?

We don't. I said I haven't seen it and asked if anyone had. All I'm getting is crickets and arguments about why they either don't need to have one, or why no one should know about them.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #495 on: June 16, 2020, 07:05:51 PM »
We don't. I said I haven't seen it and asked if anyone had. All I'm getting is crickets and arguments about why they either don't need to have one, or why no one should know about them.
I don't have kids enrolled in sleepaway camp, but it's possible that they are still clarifying regulations and recommendations and will send something out soon. idk
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #496 on: June 16, 2020, 07:32:20 PM »
"3-4 months of misery" and we still have comparisons to "a flu outbreak or some other virus?"

I don't disagree about the likelihood of a day camp outbreak, but I fail to see how one exempts the other. Also, a day camp is local, so outbreak response is fairly simple. Overnight camps are a little more complex than that.

Glad to hear your kids had a grand time. Mine were b"h not miserable because we were able to afford leaving the city for the last 2 months, however I know loads of kids who live in cramped quarters and yes it is/was very difficult for them and their parents. They were very very much looking forward to getting a break by going to camp.

I'm not comparing anything to flu or other virus, just saying the likelihood of this breaking out is the same or similar to likelihood of something else breaking out. I'd be concerned about a flu outbreak just the same even without comparing it at all to coronavirus.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #497 on: June 16, 2020, 07:38:27 PM »
I'm not comparing anything to flu or other virus, just saying the likelihood of this breaking out is the same or similar to likelihood of something else breaking out. I'd be concerned about a flu outbreak just the same even without comparing it at all to coronavirus.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #498 on: June 16, 2020, 07:40:29 PM »
"3-4 months of misery" and we still have comparisons to "a flu outbreak or some other virus?"

I don't disagree about the likelihood of a day camp outbreak, but I fail to see how one exempts the other. Also, a day camp is local, so outbreak response is fairly simple. Overnight camps are a little more complex than that.

My son was BH accepted today for sleep away camp. I sincerely hope this will give a headstart in healing the damage done over the past 3 months.

I honestly don't see a reason for fear at an overnight camp. Those that come from communities that have over 70% exposure to the virus, are most likely immune. The others will either not get it from the immune bunch, or will be easily contained.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #499 on: June 16, 2020, 07:48:14 PM »
My son was BH accepted today for sleep away camp. I sincerely hope this will give a headstart in healing the damage done over the past 3 months.

I honestly don't see a reason for fear at an overnight camp. Those that come from communities that have over 70% exposure to the virus, are most likely immune. The others will either not get it from the immune bunch, or will be easily contained.

Again, I understand the reasoning behind sending. I don't understand the reasoning for not asking for outbreak contingencies.

As an aside, the camp that was supposed to only be for kids from CH is now having kids come from PA, NJ, DE, MD, and FL (possibly more, those are just what I know). So that 70% is nowhere close to 70% anymore. You have kids from many communities, and kids flying in. Not saying that will change anything for most parents, but the facts are different than what many believe.
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