Poll

Will there be sleep away summer camp this year?

Yes
12 (20.7%)
NO
33 (56.9%)
Only second month
13 (22.4%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Voting closed: April 17, 2020, 03:42:36 PM

Author Topic: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?  (Read 93153 times)

Offline avromie7

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #540 on: June 17, 2020, 05:10:01 PM »
I don't dispute that and take particular care in avoiding the virus even though I am the diametric opposite of vulnerable. My point merely was we aren't seeing spike in NY/NJ & EU hospitalizations because those who are likely to end up in the hospital either already did or are still being careful.

Those advocating for business as usual are all governed by an impulsive reckless decision making process which doesn't take facts into the equation at all, and simply cede to their primal temptations. Unfortunately they outnumber us, so one of them is sitting in the Oval Office. What's remarkable is that they utterly forgot how wrong they were in February.
I think you're conflating government mandated restrictions and allowing people to decide how careful they want to be.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #541 on: June 17, 2020, 05:15:41 PM »
Honest question for @Lurker, @Dan, @S209, @PlatinumGuy (and possibly others): When you take your kid to the doctor and the doctor prescribed antibiotics, do you just follow the doctor blindly and let the kid (or for that matter if it's about you, the adult) take it, do you try to argue or negotiate with the doctor other options, or do you just ignore the doctor?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #542 on: June 17, 2020, 05:17:26 PM »
+1000000000000

Add to that being a Yid with emunah and bitachon.

This says it the best. Enough with these overly worried and overly emphasizing the greatness  and infallibility of the “scientists”. The most they are doing at this point is educated guesses.
There is a bashefer of the velt!!!

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #543 on: June 17, 2020, 05:19:23 PM »
I think you're conflating government mandated restrictions and allowing people to decide how careful they want to be.
No, you're the one clinging to every possible argument to justify a conclusion you reached out of laziness in wearing a mask.

Every single government in the world mandated restrictions that were either similar or more restrictive than the US & NY.

Governments the world over make decisions their citizens are incapable of making on their own - cigarette laws, alcohol laws, gambling laws, prostitution laws, seatbelt laws, and even medical prescription laws.

Of course, that's even without the potential for harming others with the coronavirus.
Honest question for @Lurker, @Dan, @S209, @PlatinumGuy (and possibly others): When you take your kid to the doctor and the doctor prescribed antibiotics, do you just follow the doctor blindly and let the kid (or for that matter if it's about you, the adult) take it, do you try to argue or negotiate with the doctor other options, or do you just ignore the doctor?
I don't trust anybody blindly.

There is a bashefer of the velt!!!
A common argument used to end intelligent debate. We know he's in control, we don't know if he wants more people to die or not, and we are obligated to use every resource he gave us to prepare ourselves appropriately.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Lurker

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #544 on: June 17, 2020, 05:20:23 PM »
I think you're conflating government mandated restrictions and allowing people to decide how careful they want to be.

They are one and the same. Vote Democrat, get government mandated restrictions. This is what happens when the frum Jewish communities of NY sell their votes for handouts and promises of favors.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #545 on: June 17, 2020, 05:26:05 PM »
Honest question for @Lurker, @Dan, @S209, @PlatinumGuy (and possibly others): When you take your kid to the doctor and the doctor prescribed antibiotics, do you just follow the doctor blindly and let the kid (or for that matter if it's about you, the adult) take it, do you try to argue or negotiate with the doctor other options, or do you just ignore the doctor?

I do not follow my doctors blindly. I do my research before and after talking to the doctor, ask the relevant questions based on my findings, and go with what the medical consensus is. Occasionally, when I'm conflicted, I take the advice of the Rebbe and consult a rofeh yedid. I don't negotiate with the doctor, because he has no power to make decisions for me. I don't ignore a doctor unless I feel I've received better medical guidance that tells me to proceed in a different direction.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #546 on: June 17, 2020, 05:29:03 PM »
No, you're the one clinging to every possible argument to justify a conclusion you reached out of laziness in wearing a mask.
Which conclusion?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #547 on: June 17, 2020, 05:29:26 PM »
I do not follow my doctors blindly. I do my research before and after talking to the doctor, ask the relevant questions based on my findings, and go with what the medical consensus is. Occasionally, when I'm conflicted, I take the advice of the Rebbe and consult a rofeh yedid. I don't negotiate with the doctor, because he has no power to make decisions for me. I don't ignore a doctor unless I feel I've received better medical guidance that tells me to proceed in a different direction.
You go to the doctor with a sore throat. He gives you antibiotics to take. You are going to research what he prescribed?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Lurker

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #548 on: June 17, 2020, 05:33:41 PM »
You go to the doctor with a sore throat. He gives you antibiotics to take. You are going to research what he prescribed?

If it's one I'm not already familiar with? Yes.
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Offline Mikes@Micro

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #549 on: June 17, 2020, 05:55:22 PM »
Honest question for @Lurker, @Dan, @S209, @PlatinumGuy (and possibly others): When you take your kid to the doctor and the doctor prescribed antibiotics, do you just follow the doctor blindly and let the kid (or for that matter if it's about you, the adult) take it, do you try to argue or negotiate with the doctor other options, or do you just ignore the doctor?
I've read articles from doctors about the fine line in that they appreciate an educated patient but not one who questions them based on webMD.
Quote or engagement  equals full throated endorsement and vote!
H/t PinchosL

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #550 on: June 17, 2020, 06:54:59 PM »
I've read articles from doctors about the fine line in that they appreciate an educated patient but not one who questions them based on webMD.

Without reading any such articles, I can tell you that the worst thing is for doctors to have to deal with patients arguing with them based on information they found with the help of Google. And they are for the most part right.

Based on the responses I got, I guess I didn't formulate my question properly, as people seem to have latched on to the word "blindly" in their responses.

So let's use a real-life scenario and give multiple choices for answers, so we can avoid the free-form answers.

Your 9 year old daughter complains of a headache and sore throat and has fever. You take her to the doctor who does a quick Step test that shows positive. The doctor prescribes antibiotics. Luckily, this is a practice that takes two swabs for a strep test, and then also put one test for an overnight. The next morning you call (waiting for a call from the MD office might take longer, so you call first thing in the morning) to find out that the overnight test came back negative.

Do you:
A. Fill the prescription immediately and start your daughter on antibiotics.
B. Postpone filling the prescription and call the next morning for the overnight results, and let your kid's body fight off whatever they might have.
C. Ask the doctor upon receiving the prescription if their are any alternatives that don't involve antibiotics.
D. Do as in A, and upon getting a call back from the office late in the next afternoon that the overnight came back negative, ask the Dr if you should continue on antibiotics, because even though it might not be strep, but it could be something else that the antibiotics can kill.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline beeweegee

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #551 on: June 17, 2020, 07:00:59 PM »
I've read articles from doctors about the fine line in that they appreciate an educated patient but not one who questions them based on webMD.
Lol this.  I find it helpful when a patient has read up on his/her condition and is knowledgable about it. It makes my life easier, and shows that they care. But yes, the self-diagnosing, sometimes contrarian patients educated by Dr. Google can be frustrating at times.

Offline Mikes@Micro

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #552 on: June 17, 2020, 08:05:08 PM »

I would say D... is that correct

Quote or engagement  equals full throated endorsement and vote!
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #553 on: June 17, 2020, 09:14:29 PM »
Without reading any such articles, I can tell you that the worst thing is for doctors to have to deal with patients arguing with them based on information they found with the help of Google. And they are for the most part right.

Based on the responses I got, I guess I didn't formulate my question properly, as people seem to have latched on to the word "blindly" in their responses.

So let's use a real-life scenario and give multiple choices for answers, so we can avoid the free-form answers.

Your 9 year old daughter complains of a headache and sore throat and has fever. You take her to the doctor who does a quick Step test that shows positive. The doctor prescribes antibiotics. Luckily, this is a practice that takes two swabs for a strep test, and then also put one test for an overnight. The next morning you call (waiting for a call from the MD office might take longer, so you call first thing in the morning) to find out that the overnight test came back negative.

Do you:
A. Fill the prescription immediately and start your daughter on antibiotics.
B. Postpone filling the prescription and call the next morning for the overnight results, and let your kid's body fight off whatever they might have.
C. Ask the doctor upon receiving the prescription if their are any alternatives that don't involve antibiotics.
D. Do as in A, and upon getting a call back from the office late in the next afternoon that the overnight came back negative, ask the Dr if you should continue on antibiotics, because even though it might not be strep, but it could be something else that the antibiotics can kill.

Frankly, I don't particularly care what's best for the doctor. I care about what's best for the patient. And I don't argue with my doctor, I ask questions and let him explain why he feels this method of treatment is best.

As for your multiple choice, you're missing variables. If it's my kid with a history of strep throat, the answer is A. I know he's getting Amoxicillin, and I know how he'll react to it. If it's an ear infection in my toddler who has a history of ear infections, I ask my wife for the name of the antibiotic I can never remember, then ask the doctor to skip the Amoxicillin and go straight to the Augmentin, since she needs the stronger stuff. If it's the first time my kid has had strep, I ask the doctor what s/he recommends with regards to starting that night or waiting for the full culture. They've generally got a good handle on what's going on from examining my kid.

In short, I try to stay educated about the illnesses my kids may have, as well as the treatment protocols and medications available to them, with all the pros and cons. What's your point?
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Offline Mikes@Micro

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #554 on: June 17, 2020, 09:19:46 PM »
@Lurker I agree with all you examples.

You seem to agree with this: keep in mind that you need you doc to make the final diagnosis so you dont want to annoy him too much
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #555 on: June 17, 2020, 09:29:18 PM »
@Lurker I agree with all you examples.

You seem to agree with this: keep in mind that you need you doc to make the final diagnosis so you dont want to annoy him too much

TG, I live in a place with many options for medical care. If I don't respect a doctor, I won't trust him/her with my family's care. If I have a question I feel needs to be answered, I'm not particularly concerned with annoying my doctor. As long as I treat the doctor with the respect they deserve, they have no reason to get annoyed.
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Offline S209

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #556 on: June 17, 2020, 10:06:39 PM »
Without reading any such articles, I can tell you that the worst thing is for doctors to have to deal with patients arguing with them based on information they found with the help of Google. And they are for the most part right.

Based on the responses I got, I guess I didn't formulate my question properly, as people seem to have latched on to the word "blindly" in their responses.

So let's use a real-life scenario and give multiple choices for answers, so we can avoid the free-form answers.

Your 9 year old daughter complains of a headache and sore throat and has fever. You take her to the doctor who does a quick Step test that shows positive. The doctor prescribes antibiotics. Luckily, this is a practice that takes two swabs for a strep test, and then also put one test for an overnight. The next morning you call (waiting for a call from the MD office might take longer, so you call first thing in the morning) to find out that the overnight test came back negative.

Do you:
A. Fill the prescription immediately and start your daughter on antibiotics.
B. Postpone filling the prescription and call the next morning for the overnight results, and let your kid's body fight off whatever they might have.
C. Ask the doctor upon receiving the prescription if their are any alternatives that don't involve antibiotics.
D. Do as in A, and upon getting a call back from the office late in the next afternoon that the overnight came back negative, ask the Dr if you should continue on antibiotics, because even though it might not be strep, but it could be something else that the antibiotics can kill.
Why don’t you answer my question first? Where have you seen any medical evidence that exposure renders you immune?
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Offline S209

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #557 on: June 17, 2020, 10:09:30 PM »
+1000000000000

Add to that being a Yid with emunah and bitachon.
-100000000000

Any precaution that feels uncomfortable or doesn’t jibe with your political views must be ignored because you’re a Yid with emunah and bitachon? We don’t listen to doctors but instead rely on our complete personal lack of medical knowledge to make decisions because we trust in Hashem? Is this a Chabad teaching?
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Offline S209

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #558 on: June 17, 2020, 10:13:02 PM »
Honest question for @Lurker, @Dan, @S209, @PlatinumGuy (and possibly others): When you take your kid to the doctor and the doctor prescribed antibiotics, do you just follow the doctor blindly and let the kid (or for that matter if it's about you, the adult) take it, do you try to argue or negotiate with the doctor other options, or do you just ignore the doctor?
I don’t know what I’d do in any specific situation but one thing is for sure: I wouldn’t do anything without adequate medical support for that decision.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #559 on: June 17, 2020, 10:22:10 PM »
Why don’t you answer my question first? Where have you seen any medical evidence that exposure renders you immune?

In case you missed it:

Yup. My source is the pair of eyes and the brains granted to me by my creator.

If you'd rather wait for a manufactured vaccine, talk to me no sooner than Trumps 2nd year of his 2nd term.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan