Author Topic: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer? (Read 232895 times)

S209 · « **Reply #80 on:** April 19, 2020, 03:42:09 PM »

Quote from: Let3 on April 19, 2020, 03:23:54 PM

Aylor
But idk if they can claim makos medina on something they didn’t even begin putting together yet (assuming most start after pesach - as I’ve heard) and haven’t lost anything yet besides future profits for something they will not be operating.
I may be wrong...

They are taking a loss on the campus plus any deposits for trips, supplies etc. as well as maintenance and year round staff.

Besides, who says they need a loss to declare Makas Medina?

Yard sale · « **Reply #81 on:** April 19, 2020, 07:06:38 PM »

Quote from: S209 on April 19, 2020, 02:48:59 PM

That’s probably true, but OP was talking about getting his deposit refunded. For future installments he has every right to stop them in advance, but if they charge them now without being told not to he won’t be able to be Motze them either.

Is that so? I would think that would be tefisah shelo be reshus once it’s obvious there is an issue with opening

S209 · « **Reply #82 on:** April 19, 2020, 07:07:52 PM »

Quote from: Yard sale on April 19, 2020, 07:06:38 PM

Is that so? I would think that would be tefisah shelo be reshus once it’s obvious there is an issue with opening

How shelo bershus? He explicitly authorized payment and hasn’t retracted his authorization

Yard sale · « **Reply #83 on:** April 19, 2020, 08:03:22 PM »

Quote from: S209 on April 19, 2020, 07:07:52 PM

How shelo bershus? He explicitly authorized payment and hasn’t retracted his authorization

Umdena that he doesn’t realize that his cc is still being charged/ headcheck is still being cashed. No one pays for nothing willingly.

Seem to recall one of The Rabbonim guidelines specifically addressed headchecks. I’ll try to find it later.

S209 · « **Reply #84 on:** April 19, 2020, 08:08:39 PM »

Quote from: Yard sale on April 19, 2020, 08:03:22 PM

Umdena that he doesn’t realize that his cc is still being charged/ headcheck is still being cashed. No one pays for nothing willingly.

Seem to recall one of The Rabbonim guidelines specifically addressed headchecks. I’ll try to find it later.

They addressed head checks being deposited by a babysitter for a month in which we already know there will be no services performed. Here we are discussing a case where neither side is certain if it will, but if the father recants permission he will forfeit his previous deposit and thus lose if camp actually opens, or he can leave it as is and let it be cashed but will be forfeiting this money as well should the camp be forced not to open.

Again, the father certainly has a right to withdraw authorization to charge his card or cancel the checks, but if he does not withdraw permission, the camp would seemingly be fully within its’ rights to cash them assuming they honestly believe they will be opening.

Yard sale · « **Reply #85 on:** April 19, 2020, 10:21:16 PM »

Quote from: S209 on April 19, 2020, 08:08:39 PM

They addressed head checks being deposited by a babysitter for a month in which we already know there will be no services performed. Here we are discussing a case where neither side is certain if it will, but if the father recants permission he will forfeit his previous deposit and thus lose if camp actually opens, or he can leave it as is and let it be cashed but will be forfeiting this money as well should the camp be forced not to open.

Again, the father certainly has a right to withdraw authorization to charge his card or cancel the checks, but if he does not withdraw permission, the camp would seemingly be fully within its’ rights to cash them assuming they honestly believe they will be opening.

If they truly honestly believe they are opening, not just wishful thinking that’s a different story. There is obviously no umdina. Conversely, I would be surprised if a beis din would allow a camp to keep the deposit gratis in the event that they do open when the father is willing to send but withdrew his permission to cash the headchecks in the interim merely to protect his interest in this situation, not to be chozer...

yaakov35 · « **Reply #86 on:** April 20, 2020, 10:48:31 PM »

Looks positive

zale · « **Reply #87 on:** April 20, 2020, 10:52:47 PM »

Quote from: yaakov35 on April 20, 2020, 10:48:31 PM

Looks positive

https://collive.com/summer-camps-remain-in-limbo-awaiting-government-instructions/

I think we need to first know what the “precautions” are. Per the above article, if the rules make it impossible for the camps to function, it’s as good as closed.

Afrages6 · « **Reply #88 on:** April 20, 2020, 11:25:13 PM »

Quote from: zale on April 20, 2020, 10:52:47 PM

https://collive.com/summer-camps-remain-in-limbo-awaiting-government-instructions/

I think we need to first know what the “precautions” are. Per the above article, if the rules make it impossible for the camps to function, it’s as good as closed.

If the kids are gonna be spending 8 weeks together in a camp I’d imagine that social distancing wouldn’t apply.

ari3 · « **Reply #89 on:** April 20, 2020, 11:39:58 PM »

Quote from: Afrages6 on April 20, 2020, 11:25:13 PM

If the kids are gonna be spending 8 weeks together in a camp I’d imagine that social distancing wouldn’t apply.

It would be practically impossible to have camp with social distancing. Problem is if kids are asymptomatic it can slowly spread and they will come home with it.

Afrages6 · « **Reply #90 on:** April 21, 2020, 12:37:50 AM »

Quote from: ari3 on April 20, 2020, 11:39:58 PM

It would be practically impossible to have camp with social distancing. Problem is if kids are asymptomatic it can slowly spread and they will come home with it.

So I’m assuming the hope is too test everyone before they come to camp, in two months I believe we will able to know much more clearly who does and doesn’t have the virus

Luvtotravel · « **Reply #91 on:** April 21, 2020, 01:57:20 AM »

Quote from: Afrages6 on April 21, 2020, 12:37:50 AM

So I’m assuming the hope is too test everyone before they come to camp, in two months I believe we will able to know much more clearly who does and doesn’t have the virus

if the news regarding reinfection is true, how does that help us?

Afrages6 · « **Reply #92 on:** April 21, 2020, 08:28:31 AM »

Quote from: Luvtotravel on April 21, 2020, 01:57:20 AM

if the news regarding reinfection is true, how does that help us?

The news regarding reinfection is not yet significant and the prevalent medical theory is that you are immune to it for some period of time. But my point was more that if regular testing for the active virus could tell and guarantee that no one has the virus when they go into camp we could be at a point where it’s viable.