Poll

Will there be sleep away summer camp this year?

Yes
12 (20.7%)
NO
33 (56.9%)
Only second month
13 (22.4%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Voting closed: April 17, 2020, 03:42:36 PM

Author Topic: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?  (Read 173719 times)

Offline Joel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2018
  • Posts: 5120
  • Total likes: 1078
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 76
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, National EE, Hertz PC, Enterprise Platinum, Avis PC
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2020, 04:24:36 PM »
I work for one of the big camps  got a phone call today that we should start opening next week
Can you pull permits to open the camp?

Offline Boruch Parnes

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 662
  • Total likes: 76
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2020, 05:52:48 PM »
Can you pull permits to open the camp?
we only get CO when we pass inspection

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1424
  • Total likes: 374
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2020, 06:04:43 PM »
we only get CO when we pass inspection

Is this in Sullivan County?

Offline coffeebean

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Feb 2018
  • Posts: 3002
  • Total likes: 817
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2020, 06:02:58 AM »
Hope I'm not biased since a lot of my income comes from a sleepaway camp. I see more of a positive than negative outcome in opening camps. What's wrong with opening a camp with 1,000 kids who are not vulnerable to the virus? Counslers are usually in their teens or 20s. What your doing is taking the kids away from people who are most vulnerable (relatives, grandparents, neighbors, etc.), and isolating them in a place where they won't be in contact with anyone who can really be affected. The problem is Head Cousler/Owner. In the camp I work with the Head Counselor already had the virus. So if they work out a system where they social distance the owner and the 2 or 3 other people on campus that are over 40, I don't see the big deal in opening. Thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 06:06:51 AM by avrohomgelb »

Offline moko

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 4567
  • Total likes: 1484
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: BOS
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2020, 06:42:58 AM »
Hope I'm not biased since a lot of my income comes from a sleepaway camp. I see more of a positive than negative outcome in opening camps. What's wrong with opening a camp with 1,000 kids who are not vulnerable to the virus? Counslers are usually in their teens or 20s. What your doing is taking the kids away from people who are most vulnerable (relatives, grandparents, neighbors, etc.), and isolating them in a place where they won't be in contact with anyone who can really be affected. The problem is Head Cousler/Owner. In the camp I work with the Head Counselor already had the virus. So if they work out a system where they social distance the owner and the 2 or 3 other people on campus that are over 40, I don't see the big deal in opening. Thoughts?
What happens when camp is over in middle of an outbreak?

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30533
  • Total likes: 7829
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2020, 06:53:06 AM »
Hope I'm not biased since a lot of my income comes from a sleepaway camp. I see more of a positive than negative outcome in opening camps. What's wrong with opening a camp with 1,000 kids who are not vulnerable to the virus? Counslers are usually in their teens or 20s. What your doing is taking the kids away from people who are most vulnerable (relatives, grandparents, neighbors, etc.), and isolating them in a place where they won't be in contact with anyone who can really be affected. The problem is Head Cousler/Owner. In the camp I work with the Head Counselor already had the virus. So if they work out a system where they social distance the owner and the 2 or 3 other people on campus that are over 40, I don't see the big deal in opening. Thoughts?


Without knowing herd immunity numbers, this is risky. Let’s say a camp with had 1k kids and only 10% are immune. One kid brings an infection with him to camp and it spreads slowly, keep in mind incubation period of 3-14 days. By the time the kids leave at the end of 1-2 months, they could send home 10 kids (or more) carrying an active infection out to a population that is still vulnerable.
100% of Likes will be donated to support our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1424
  • Total likes: 374
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2020, 09:03:32 AM »
Hope I'm not biased since a lot of my income comes from a sleepaway camp. I see more of a positive than negative outcome in opening camps. What's wrong with opening a camp with 1,000 kids who are not vulnerable to the virus? Counslers are usually in their teens or 20s. What your doing is taking the kids away from people who are most vulnerable (relatives, grandparents, neighbors, etc.), and isolating them in a place where they won't be in contact with anyone who can really be affected. The problem is Head Cousler/Owner. In the camp I work with the Head Counselor already had the virus. So if they work out a system where they social distance the owner and the 2 or 3 other people on campus that are over 40, I don't see the big deal in opening. Thoughts?
What about the bus drivers?

It’s possible that states will allow camps to open out of desperation. People’s psychological health is suddenly in the center of the conversation now.

However, it’s also possible that they will place certain restrictions, such as limits of 100 campers or so per camp, and no field trips. Would you open under such conditions?

Offline Mo2

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 638
  • Total likes: 77
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: Will summer camps happen this year?
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2020, 09:46:52 AM »
Received an update that CGI Montreal not opening was inauthentic information.
was this everyone's news source about them not opening from April 1st?
http://nwpedia.club/show/1201697/camp-gan-israel-montreal-will-not-open-this-year-do-to-the-coronavirus-65047
Common sense is not a gift, it is a punishment.
Because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

Offline coffeebean

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Feb 2018
  • Posts: 3002
  • Total likes: 817
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2020, 10:17:01 AM »
Without knowing herd immunity numbers, this is risky. Let’s say a camp with had 1k kids and only 10% are immune. One kid brings an infection with him to camp and it spreads slowly, keep in mind incubation period of 3-14 days. By the time the kids leave at the end of 1-2 months, they could send home 10 kids (or more) carrying an active infection out to a population that is still vulnerable.
Didn't think of that, valid point.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30533
  • Total likes: 7829
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2020, 01:15:44 PM »
It’s possible that states will allow camps to open out of desperation. People’s psychological health is suddenly in the center of the conversation now.

I’ve seen the psychological toll mentioned, but is it really center of conversation?
100% of Likes will be donated to support our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael

Offline fineguy

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2020
  • Posts: 30
  • Total likes: 11
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: everywhere
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2020, 02:16:27 PM »
I just want to jump in and say that many parents have paid money toward summer camp already.
If camps do not end up opening they should refund the money.
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't pay camps to operate on Zoom.

If they do not operate in the usual manner, and refuse to refund, I will likely contest it with my credit card, halachically permitting.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67598
  • Total likes: 16909
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2020, 02:17:35 PM »
halachically permitting.
What does the contract say?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline fineguy

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2020
  • Posts: 30
  • Total likes: 11
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: everywhere
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2020, 02:23:04 PM »
What does the contract say?
It was prior to Corona.
I simply signed up online. I don't remember the details - there may not have been any.
Note this was for day camp, not sleep away which may have more rigorous  fine print.

Offline ari3

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 1353
  • Total likes: 532
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: new jersey
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2020, 02:23:23 PM »
What does the contract say?
Good point.

I don't think any of my children's camp contracts addressed what happens if camp doesn't open. (definitely didn't address trying to provide camp thru zoom).

Offline fineguy

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2020
  • Posts: 30
  • Total likes: 11
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: everywhere
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #74 on: April 19, 2020, 02:26:12 PM »
Good point.

I don't think any of my children's camp contracts addressed what happens if camp doesn't open. (definitely didn't address trying to provide camp thru zoom).
I have a hard time understanding the legitimacy of not refunding down-payments or partial/full payments if there is no camp. Its just crazy. 
Although camps may try to seek out ways to make it be that way.
I really have no intention of playing along

Offline ari3

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 1353
  • Total likes: 532
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: new jersey
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2020, 02:35:59 PM »
Hope I'm not biased since a lot of my income comes from a sleepaway camp. I see more of a positive than negative outcome in opening camps. What's wrong with opening a camp with 1,000 kids who are not vulnerable to the virus? Counslers are usually in their teens or 20s. What your doing is taking the kids away from people who are most vulnerable (relatives, grandparents, neighbors, etc.), and isolating them in a place where they won't be in contact with anyone who can really be affected. The problem is Head Cousler/Owner. In the camp I work with the Head Counselor already had the virus. So if they work out a system where they social distance the owner and the 2 or 3 other people on campus that are over 40, I don't see the big deal in opening. Thoughts?

While this a nice argument in theory would you be willing to take responsibility for hundreds of children based on this? Before this all started many people said (including some doctors) that it doesn't affect young people so let's keep going and just make sure the old people stay isolated. Unfortunately we know what happened with that. While the theory has good points It's nice for DDF but practically camp is not going to happen unless the virus passes by then. (not to mention good luck trying to sell that to Sullivan County to get the permits).

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7469
  • Total likes: 3930
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #76 on: April 19, 2020, 02:40:54 PM »
I have a hard time understanding the legitimacy of not refunding down-payments or partial/full payments if there is no camp. Its just crazy. 
Although camps may try to seek out ways to make it be that way.
I really have no intention of playing along
If it’s Makas Medina then you’ll have a hard time finding a Halachic basis to dispute a charge. You will be the motze
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline Yard sale

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2018
  • Posts: 900
  • Total likes: 471
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2020, 02:46:38 PM »
If it’s Makas Medina then you’ll have a hard time finding a Halachic basis to dispute a charge. You will be the motze

Not if the credit card was authorized to be charged in installments or there were head checks which were deposited after the ones was apparent (March?)

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7469
  • Total likes: 3930
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #78 on: April 19, 2020, 02:48:59 PM »
Not if the credit card was authorized to be charged in installments or there were head checks which were deposited after the ones was apparent (March?)
That’s probably true, but OP was talking about getting his deposit refunded. For future installments he has every right to stop them in advance, but if they charge them now without being told not to he won’t be able to be Motze them either.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline Let3

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 1103
  • Total likes: 31
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New Jersey
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #79 on: April 19, 2020, 03:23:54 PM »
If it’s Makas Medina then you’ll have a hard time finding a Halachic basis to dispute a charge. You will be the motze
Aylor
But idk if they can claim makos medina on something they didn’t even begin putting together yet (assuming most start after pesach - as I’ve heard) and haven’t lost anything yet besides future profits for something they will not be operating.
I may be wrong...