Poll

Will there be sleep away summer camp this year?

Yes
12 (20.7%)
NO
33 (56.9%)
Only second month
13 (22.4%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Voting closed: April 17, 2020, 03:42:36 PM

Author Topic: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?  (Read 173864 times)

Offline S209

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #560 on: June 17, 2020, 10:25:17 PM »
In case you missed it:
Did that answer my question? How? It certainly had NOTHING to do with waiting for a vaccine, and mentioning it undermines the seriousness with which I view your answer. How exactly did your eyes show you that exposure made people immune? Where did you pick that up? You ran an experiment?
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #561 on: June 17, 2020, 10:34:49 PM »
How exactly did your eyes show you that exposure made people immune? Where did you pick that up? You ran an experiment?

What proof would you find acceptable in regards to immunity?
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Offline S209

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #562 on: June 17, 2020, 10:36:43 PM »
What proof would you find acceptable in regards to immunity?
A peer reviewed study, for example? Even strong anecdotal evidence that stands up against obvious scrutiny and equally plausible theories would help.
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Offline yesitsme

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Offline NTorch

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #564 on: June 18, 2020, 05:07:39 PM »
The Association of Jewish Camp Operators filed a lawsuit earlier this afternoon seeking an injunction allowing the camps to open.

I don't think it has much of a chance for success, but at least they tried.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #565 on: June 18, 2020, 05:10:32 PM »
I am not aware of a single instance where a US court overturned government emergency restrictions. SCOTUS itself denied at least 1 case.

In Germany & France courts overruled a few blanket quarantine restrictions.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #566 on: June 18, 2020, 05:11:42 PM »
The Association of Jewish Camp Operators filed a lawsuit earlier this afternoon seeking an injunction allowing the camps to open.

I don't think it has much of a chance for success, but at least they tried.

Considering that shuls couldn't get an exception to being non-essential, why would this work?
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Offline NTorch

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #567 on: June 18, 2020, 05:21:53 PM »
Considering that shuls couldn't get an exception to being non-essential, why would this work?

I don't think that this strategy will work, but what they are arguing is that the Governor relaxed (or more accurately ignored) the health concerns and public gathering restrictions in permitting people to exercise their 1st Amendment Free Speech rights while not allowing an exception to the sleep away camp closure to allow the exercise of First Amendment Freedom of Religion.

Offline Traveler718

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #568 on: June 18, 2020, 06:13:48 PM »
I don't think that this strategy will work, but what they are arguing is that the Governor relaxed (or more accurately ignored) the health concerns and public gathering restrictions in permitting people to exercise their 1st Amendment Free Speech rights while not allowing an exception to the sleep away camp closure to allow the exercise of First Amendment Freedom of Religion.

This is exactly what religious institutions in California argued, only to be shot down by SCOTUS, though it was impressive that they got their case accepted and with tremendous haste. Hard to imagine the camps will fare any better, especially when time is not on their side.

Offline lubaby

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #569 on: June 18, 2020, 06:18:53 PM »
I don't think it has much of a chance for success, but at least they tried.
This is the important part. Until now all the complaints / grievances were just people posting on twitter or their blogs / news sites.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #570 on: June 18, 2020, 06:45:56 PM »
I am not aware of a single instance where a US court overturned government emergency restrictions. SCOTUS itself denied at least 1 case.

In Germany & France courts overruled a few blanket quarantine restrictions.
Considering that shuls couldn't get an exception to being non-essential, why would this work?
This is exactly what religious institutions in California argued, only to be shot down by SCOTUS, though it was impressive that they got their case accepted and with tremendous haste. Hard to imagine the camps will fare any better, especially when time is not on their side.
Until now the restrictions were across the board, as soon as they started picking and choosing there a much bigger chance at winning in court. Additionally I can see the court changing course as time passes because there is a lot more that is known about the virus, they may require the government to justify it's actions. I'm not going to start speculating what the chances are, but it's definitely more than any previous case which had at best little, probably no chance.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #571 on: June 18, 2020, 06:48:31 PM »
can they really prove that sleepaway camp is part of religious freedom? is this something that we want to complain about or does it lead to us looking like anytime something goes wrong for jews we complain about religious discrimination

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #572 on: June 18, 2020, 06:50:31 PM »
can they really prove that sleepaway camp is part of religious freedom? is this something that we want to complain about or does it lead to us looking like anytime something goes wrong for jews we complain about religious discrimination
It's a massive stretch. If camp is religion then everything we do is religion.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #573 on: June 18, 2020, 06:52:17 PM »
It's a massive stretch. If camp is religion then everything we do is religion.
+1 this would also not allow Oorah to open as they are careful not to force religion on to minors I believe for legal reasons
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #574 on: June 18, 2020, 07:08:35 PM »
It's a massive stretch. If camp is religion then everything we do is religion.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #575 on: June 18, 2020, 07:23:09 PM »
can they really prove that sleepaway camp is part of religious freedom? is this something that we want to complain about or does it lead to us looking like anytime something goes wrong for jews we complain about religious discrimination
It's a massive stretch. If camp is religion then everything we do is religion.
There's also economic freedom, the government can't pick and choose winners and losers.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Dan

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #576 on: June 18, 2020, 07:24:09 PM »
There's also economic freedom, the government can't pick and choose winners and losers.
Good luck with that argument.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #577 on: June 18, 2020, 07:43:02 PM »
can they really prove that sleepaway camp is part of religious freedom? is this something that we want to complain about or does it lead to us looking like anytime something goes wrong for jews we complain about religious discrimination
It's a massive stretch. If camp is religion then everything we do is religion.
I wonder what would have happened if I said this.  :)
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #578 on: June 18, 2020, 08:20:56 PM »
It's a massive stretch. If camp is religion then everything we do is religion.
It's a joke. It's just meant to justify raising funds for the organization and appease the public that they're doing something. Nobody really thinks this stands a chance, which is why no respectable attorney attached their name to it,
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #579 on: June 18, 2020, 08:24:46 PM »
This is the important part. Until now all the complaints / grievances were just people posting on twitter or their blogs / news sites.
There have been plenty of lawsuits.

Until now the restrictions were across the board, as soon as they started picking and choosing there a much bigger chance at winning in court. Additionally I can see the court changing course as time passes because there is a lot more that is known about the virus, they may require the government to justify it's actions. I'm not going to start speculating what the chances are, but it's definitely more than any previous case which had at best little, probably no chance.
Did New York State ever issue a permit for a protest? Cuomo isn't NYS, so his statements are irrelevant.
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״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים