Poll

Will there be sleep away summer camp this year?

Yes
12 (20.7%)
NO
33 (56.9%)
Only second month
13 (22.4%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Voting closed: April 17, 2020, 03:42:36 PM

Author Topic: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?  (Read 173831 times)

Offline db23

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #680 on: June 22, 2020, 01:00:24 PM »
As an overnight or day camp?

both/mixture -plan as i heard is to have kids that are upstate already going as day camp. kids from city being bused in sun-thur then home for shabbos.

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #681 on: June 22, 2020, 01:00:49 PM »
Highly unlikely they get shut down, and for kids that live in brooklyn and have been stuck in a small apartment the last 4 months they'll take 2 weeks.
Of course they will get shutdown (maybe permanently).  We are talking about Cuomo's state here.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #682 on: June 22, 2020, 01:01:48 PM »
You know of any shuls that the cops shut down??

770, multiple times, although that may be different because they had the backing of the gabboim. Also IIRC, many shuls were targeted after DeBlasio's funeral debacle.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #683 on: June 22, 2020, 01:02:16 PM »
There was plenty accomplished with the shuls... after pesach the cops didn't go around closing shuls that were open..
That's a local decision. Upstate clearly doesn't want these camps so I don't see why they wouldn't enforce the closure.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #684 on: June 22, 2020, 01:03:21 PM »
That some of the camps have thousands of kids... what are they gonna do? Put up a fence? Bus them out? Fine the? They'll fight it.

You're describing a powerless government that doesn't match the realities on the ground. If this were realistic, we'd all be CHAZ/CHOP, living in an anarchist's utopia.
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Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #685 on: June 22, 2020, 01:06:41 PM »
You're describing a powerless government that doesn't match the realities on the ground. If this were realistic, we'd all be CHAZ/CHOP, living in an anarchist's utopia.
Would not say "all"

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #686 on: June 22, 2020, 01:12:24 PM »
That some of the camps have thousands of kids... what are they gonna do? Put up a fence? Bus them out? Fine the? They'll fight it.
You live in alternate reality. In real life if Cuomo wants to shut it down, he'll send some cops there if needed put a few people in jail, and the camp will rush to get all the kids home. And no it won't take months, there are duty judges 24/7.


Quote
The provisions of the sanitary code shall have the force and effect of law and the non-compliance or non-conformance with any provision thereof shall constitute a violation punishable on conviction for a first offense by a fine not exceeding two hundred fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not exceeding fifteen days, or both; and for a second or subsequent offense by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not exceeding fifteen days, or both.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PBH/229
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Offline NTorch

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #687 on: June 22, 2020, 01:26:20 PM »
That's a local decision. Upstate clearly doesn't want these camps so I don't see why they wouldn't enforce the closure.

Not sure how you are defining "upstate". These are local decisions made by the various counties that the camps are located in. Many of the camps are in Sullivan County (Monticello), others are in Orange, Dutchess, Ulster and Chenango. Each County has its own Department of Health which oversees the camps in its County. The local Sheriff's Department will be the entity that has to police and shut down an illegally operating camp and I don't know if each County feels strongly against or for the opening. These are big money makers for some of the smaller counties.

Of course, none of these camps can open legally without NY's Dept of Health giving the green light for sleep away camps, but all the enforcement will be on the local (County) level.

Meanwhile their attempt to get a TRO allowing them to open just took another small step forward as they asked the Judge to give them a hearing on June 25 (letter attached). However since that is the day that they claim that they want to open, I don't know how they convince a Judge that the TRO will give them any real relief as he will probably be skeptical about their ability to safely and quickly open if he allows them to do so.


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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #688 on: June 22, 2020, 01:30:22 PM »
770, multiple times, although that may be different because they had the backing of the gabboim. Also IIRC, many shuls were targeted after DeBlasio's funeral debacle.

As I heard cops only cames to shuls they were called. they outright did not look out to shut shuls

The same goes for all schools in Brooklyn.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #689 on: June 22, 2020, 01:30:27 PM »
That's a local decision. Upstate clearly doesn't want these camps so I don't see why they wouldn't enforce the closure.
Sullivan country very much wants these camps. They are big money makers for the county.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #690 on: June 22, 2020, 01:33:29 PM »
For them to close the camp they would have to observe the kids sleeping there at night, No?
All-day its day camp

Would they need a search want to go onto cap grounds and into bunkhouses?

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #691 on: June 22, 2020, 01:38:30 PM »
Sullivan country very much wants these camps. They are big money makers for the county.

If the camps are completely self-contained with all supplies sourced and stored on-site before opening, what financial benefits do the counties get?
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Online avromie7

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #692 on: June 22, 2020, 01:43:11 PM »
If the camps are completely self-contained with all supplies sourced and stored on-site before opening, what financial benefits do the counties get?
Jobs for their residents. I won't be shocked if camps open out of state and don't come back which is definitely a big loss to them.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #693 on: June 22, 2020, 01:52:58 PM »
Jobs for their residents. I won't be shocked if camps open out of state and don't come back which is definitely a big loss to them.

More than just the jobs for the residents at the camp. Think about all the local contractors who get brought in for electrical, plumbing, septic work.

Also the camp may be buying its food from elsewhere, but anything from office supplies to cleaning and janitorial supplies all come from local merchants.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #694 on: June 22, 2020, 01:53:59 PM »
Jobs for their residents.

If "no one in, no one out" is the policy, how many of the jobs will be filled by locals? My only experience with a camp in update NY was CGI Parksville, and their non-Jewish workers were not local to the county.

I won't be shocked if camps open out of state and don't come back which is definitely a big loss to them.

I understand this concern, but I think it's unwarranted. Many camps own their grounds, and I believe all the camps which relocated are renting grounds from established camps which are temporarily closed for this year due to Covid. To find a permanent home in those locations would be much harder to do.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 02:18:38 PM by Lurker »
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #695 on: June 22, 2020, 01:54:48 PM »
More than just the jobs for the residents at the camp. Think about all the local contractors who get brought in for electrical, plumbing, septic work.

Also the camp may be buying its food from elsewhere, but anything from office supplies to cleaning and janitorial supplies all come from local merchants.

This is why I don't think "no one in, no one out" is feasible.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #696 on: June 22, 2020, 02:16:06 PM »
This is why I don't think "no one in, no one out" is feasible.
IDK what they would do about local contractors, but I don't think a delivery done without any interaction would violate a no one in, no one out policy.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #697 on: June 22, 2020, 02:20:58 PM »
I understand this concern, but I think it's unwarranted. Many camps own their grounds, and I believe all the camps which relocated are renting grounds from established camps which are temporarily closed for this year due to Covid. To find a permanent home in those locations would be much harder to do.
I don't think camps will cease to exist in sullivan county, but I'd be shocked if this doesn't cause some shift out of the area.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 02:47:34 PM by avromie7 »
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #698 on: June 22, 2020, 02:26:21 PM »
For them to close the camp they would have to observe the kids sleeping there at night, No?
All-day its day camp

Would they need a search want to go onto cap grounds and into bunkhouses?
There isn't really any proof burden - the Health commissioner has authority to decide. You'd have to convince a court to overturn his decision based on lack of due process or evidence to the contrary
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #699 on: June 22, 2020, 02:29:30 PM »
I don't think camps will cease to exist in sullivan county, but I'd be shocked if this does cause some shift out of the area.

I think you meant you wouldn't be shocked. I would be. Camps are too invested there, and the convenience factor is too high to uproot an existing camp. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see new camps start up out of state if the Poconos works out this summer.
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