Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?

[ari3]

Then embrace it and stop being a hypocrite!!!

most people here at this point don't have an issue with flouting laws that they see as unjust. They still have an issue with rioting, looting, tearing down statues, burning down police stations and the like. Not only because it is against the law but because it is against common decency and it is damaging others property

[ah giten]

AFAIK all camps that have plans to open are working with lawyers to have some kind of legality.
Why is everybody here saying that they're breaking the law? Is challenging an executive order equal to breaking the law?

[ari3]

AFAIK all camps that have plans to open are working with lawyers to have some kind of legality.
Why is everybody here saying that they're breaking the law? Is challenging an executive order equal to breaking the law?

Violating an executive order equals breaking the law. They may be challenging the executive order in court but till that gets turned over or till there is an injunction it is the law.

Camps are also trying to utilize various loopholes that probably wouldn't hold up in a court of law but may be good enough to avoid getting shut down in the meantime.

[yesitsme]

if TRO fails the will go for TR

[PlatinumGuy]

I believe that many camp directors (and I assume the Daas Torah guiding them) feel that there is an element of yaharog v'al yaavor when it comes to keeping kids in camp and off the streets. They'll do whatever it takes to keep the kids in a kosher environment, even if the entire country turns against us.

I'm stunned that you actually believe that. ד' עבירות חמורות.

[CountValentine]

most people here at this point don't have an issue with flouting laws that they see as unjust. They still have an issue with rioting, looting, tearing down statues, burning down police stations and the like. Not only because it is against the law but because it is against common decency and it is damaging others property

When you pick and choose which laws are unjust based on who it effects is hypocrisy at its finest.

[incendia]

Wow! After everything that has happened in this country these last few weeks there are still people that are concerned about the law. This country has descended into anarchy and dictatorship.

I used to be a law abiding citizen too

Can't be both

[yesitsme]

When you pick and choose which laws are unjust based on who it effects is hypocrisy at its finest.

he explained it very clearly

[123-Rosh]

I'm stunned that you actually believe that. ד' עבירות חמורות.

I'm stunned that you actually thought that I personally share these beliefs.

I believe that the directors (and the daas torah guiding them) believe that.
I believe that they believe that keeping teens on the streets all summer is tantamount to gilui arayos, which is one of the gimel avairos chamuros.
I believe that they believe that the legal or PR risks of opening are nothing compared to the risks of not opening.

[PlatinumGuy]

I'm stunned that you actually thought that I personally share these beliefs.

I believe that the directors (and the daas torah guiding them) believe that.
I believe that they believe that keeping teens on the streets all summer is tantamount to gilui arayos, which is one of the gimel avairos chamuros.
I believe that they believe that the legal or PR risks of opening are nothing compared to the risks of not opening.

May hashem help us all. At least I understand now how the lawyers are claiming camp is a religious freedom

[NTorch]

I'm stunned that you actually thought that I personally share these beliefs.

I believe that the directors (and the daas torah guiding them) believe that.
I believe that they believe that keeping teens on the streets all summer is tantamount to gilui arayos, which is one of the gimel avairos chamuros.
I believe that they believe that the legal or PR risks of opening are nothing compared to the risks of not opening.

I don't know what you personally believe, but I can't believe that any posek is standing behind these principles.

1. The kids are being as used pawns and no rational parent wants to see their kid getting sent home because their camp was shut down by the local Department of Health.
2. If anyone actually believed that this was an issue of gilui arayos the entire community would be funding sending kids from poor homes to summer camp every summer. Even if camps would have opened in a normal (non-Covid) year, there would be many, many kids who would not be in camp due to financial circumstances.
3. The legal/PR risks are nothing compared with the abject chillul Hashem created by a premeditated violation of the law. This is not people not wearing a mask at funeral or not obeying social distance guidelines. These would be organized summer camps choosing to intentionally violate the law.

[CountValentine]

he explained it very clearly

Cutting locks - ok
Having summer camps - ok
Mass gatherings for weddings - ok
Mass gatherings for funerals - ok
Kids protesting without SD or masks - ok
The list goes on and on.

Peaceful protest is not ok but gassing, rubber bullets and other things used against peaceful protesters is ok

The hypocrisy has never been any clearer. 

[123-Rosh]

I don't know what you personally believe, but I can't believe that any posek is standing behind these principles.

1. The kids are being as used pawns and no rational parent wants to see their kid getting sent home because their camp was shut down by the local Department of Health.
2. If anyone actually believed that this was an issue of gilui arayos the entire community would be funding sending kids from poor homes to summer camp every summer. Even if camps would have opened in a normal (non-Covid) year, there would be many, many kids who would not be in camp due to financial circumstances.
3. The legal/PR risks are nothing compared with the abject chillul Hashem created by a premeditated violation of the law. This is not people not wearing a mask at funeral or not obeying social distance guidelines. These would be organized summer camps choosing to intentionally violate the law.

You clearly don't understand the chasidishe mindset.
1. Yes, the rabanim DO believe that leaving kids on the streets in the summer is tantamount to gilui arayos.
2. Yes, the chasidishe kehilos DO set up funds so that kids from poor homes can go to summer camp every summer. In fact, most chasidishe camps provide scholarships to those who can't afford it.
3. Once again, you clearly don't understand the chasidishe mindset. Chilul Hashem is not in the lexicon. "They are anyways all antisemites or zionists, so who cares."

[Kobe Bryant]

Hearing scheduled for June 30th.

[Lurker]

Hearing scheduled for June 30th.

Question is, if the camps open before then, how will that impact this hearing?

[NTorch]

Question is, if the camps open before then, how will that impact this hearing?

The Judge granted the motion for an expedited hearing and set deadlines for filing

TEXT ORDER granting 7 , 8 and 10 Plaintiffs' application for an Order to Show Cause. Plaintiffs' application is supported by a showing of good cause why the standard Notice of Motion procedure cannot be used, as required by Local Rule 7.1(e) of the Local Rules of Practice for this Court. (See, e.g., Dkt. No. 7 , Attach. 18, at 3-5, 8.) Furthermore, Plaintiffs have already given reasonable advance notice of the action, the motion for a TRO and the application. (Dkt. No. 7 , Attach. 18, at 9; Dkt. No. 9 .) Plaintiffs shall serve this Text Order and their motion papers on Defendant immediately by both email and overnight mail. Plaintiffs shall also serve Defendant with a copy of their Complaint in accordance with the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Plaintiffs shall file proofs of service with the Court immediately following service as prescribed herein. Defendant's response papers are due by 5:00 P.M. on Friday, June 26, 2020. Plaintiffs' reply papers are due by 12:00 P.M. (noon) on Monday, June 29, 2020. A hearing on Plaintiffs' motion for a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction shall be held at 10:00 A.M. on Tuesday, June 30, 2020, via Skype for Business. The Court's deputy clerk will contact the parties with details pertaining to the use of Skype for Business. SO ORDERED by Chief Judge Glenn T. Suddaby on 6/24/2020. (sal ) (Entered: 06/24/2020)

Having said that , I dont think it would look good if any of the camps under the umbrella of the "Association of Jewish Camp Operators" open despite the Order mandating their closure. The Judge would ask their attorney why he needs the relief that he is asking for (the TRO) if his clients are already acting in violation of the Order.

And no, I don't see any lawyer telling his clients to open their camp before the Judge makes his ruling.

[EliJelly]

AFAIK boys and girls camps won't have sleepover if it's not cleared 100% legally. Bachorim camps is the biggest concern, some got fully legal statuses, others are still waiting and might take riskier routes if possible.

[Kobe Bryant]

AFAIK boys and girls camps won't have sleepover if it's not cleared 100% legally. Bachorim camps is the biggest concern, some got fully legal statuses, others are still waiting and might take riskier routes if possible.

If everyone is over 18 YO, are they bound by this EO?

[EliJelly]

If everyone is over 18 YO, are they bound by this EO?

Not sure, Mainstream chassidish camps don't have all above 18 generally. But maybe that's how some got collage statuses.

[ari3]

1. The kids are being as used pawns and no rational parent wants to see their kid getting sent home because their camp was shut down by the local Department of Health.

Pawns? how is that? Who is forcing the kids to go or the parents to send? I wish my teenage daughter's camp would open (they are going the daycamp route and I am not in the catskills) and I would send in a heartbeat. My daughter is plotzing to go to camp. If they get shut down and she gets sent home that's the risk and we are willing to take that.