Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?

[CountValentine]

Word on the street is that satmar was told that if they open the directors will be arrested for child endangerment.

Smart to keep the kids out of the picture.

[iluv2travel]

Word on the street is that satmar was told that if they open the directors will be arrested for child endangerment.

So if they open in NY its child endangerment but if they open next door in PA its not???

It's a ludicrous claim.

[123-Rosh]

The governor told satmar he will have them arrested. (per the rumor)

[CountValentine]

So if they open in NY its child endangerment but if they open next door in PA its not???

It's a ludicrous claim.

Which one is wrong, NY or PA?

[Lurker]

So if they open in NY its child endangerment but if they open next door in PA its not???

It's a ludicrous claim.

Actually, opening a camp without permits is child endangerment in both states.

[CountValentine]

Actually, opening a camp without permits is child endangerment in both states.

Which one is wrong, NY or PA?

Finally got an answer to a question.

[iluv2travel]

Which one is wrong, NY or PA?

Its wrong that the same act (which people are considering quite severe) can can get you arrested in one state but not in another. And yes I know states are allowed different laws and will not go into that argument. In this case, NY governor is acting dictatorial and not at all in the best interests of his constituents.

Actually, opening a camp without permits is child endangerment in both states.

That may be so, but all camps in PA have permits to my knowledge. So nobody is going to get arrested there for child endangerment because they're operating a camp.

Obviously its obnoxious that NY chose not to issue them and then may arrest people based on that.

[Dan]

The governor told satmar he will have them arrested. (per the rumor)

They'll still vote D anyway.

[Kobe Bryant]

They'll still vote D anyway.

On condition that he pardons them.

[123-Rosh]

They'll still vote D anyway.

Many chareidim in NY are waking up and realizing the issues with voting D.

[Dan]

Many chareidim in NY are waking up and realizing the issues with voting D.

Won't really matter in NJ/NY.

[yesitsme]

Many chareidim in NY are waking up and realizing the issues with voting D.

I grew up knowing that we register as D even though we don't believe in everything they believe in, by the time I was eligible to register I registered as R

[yossig]

Word on the street is that satmar was told that if they open the directors will be arrested for child endangerment.

this is just perfect to scare them.

with top medical experts backing the camps this is going to be a difficult case to win.

[Mikes@Micro]

Look up. ☝️👆👆
Based on the poll camps have approx 50% chance of being open 2nd half!

[yfr bachur]

Wow. Yes, calling yourself an orphanage in order to open a camp sends a horrible message to kids. And if your accountant needs to lie on your tax return in order to save you money, he's not really a good accountant. He's engaging in fraud, as are you.

What the hell happened to us?

What has happened is that we are a bunch of spoiled overgrown teenagers who think that if we dont get exactly what we want it's the greatest churban in the history of Klal Yisroel, and we can do what ever we want to get what we want.
We don't run our lives by asking "what does the torah want from me now?" rather "How I find a loophole to allow what I want?"
We dont trust those that know better than us. Rabbanim, Poskim, Doctors, Scientists, Economists, Accountants... If they dont allow me to do what I want, they "dont know what they're talking about" "Its an educated guess" "they get paid off" "There's a Bashefer" "they dont understand" "I think differently" "

[iluv2travel]

What has happened is that we are a bunch of spoiled overgrown teenagers who think that if we dont get exactly what we want it's the greatest churban in the history of Klal Yisroel, and we can do what ever we want to get what we want.
We don't run our lives by asking "what does the torah want from me now?" rather "How I find a loophole to allow what I want?"
We dont trust those that know better than us. Rabbanim, Poskim, Doctors, Scientists, Economists, Accountants... If they dont allow me to do what I want, they "dont know what they're talking about" "Its an educated guess" "they get paid off" "There's a Bashefer" "they dont understand" "I think differently" "

Wrong.

Talk for yourself.

We sure do trust all of the above and more. Rabbanim and Asksnim were and are completely involved in the effort to open camps because they deemed it important. They are in consultation with doctors and medical experts to run those camps according to the highest standards possible from that perspective.

Do you see our community rioting, looting, shooting, burning, and what-not over this ban??? We are absolutely NOT doing whatever we want to get what we want.

The governor here has become a dictator. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[iluv2travel]

Wow. Yes, calling yourself an orphanage in order to open a camp sends a horrible message to kids. And if your accountant needs to lie on your tax return in order to save you money, he's not really a good accountant. He's engaging in fraud, as are you.

What the hell happened to us?

Name one camp that is opening as an orphanage. Not happening. Stick to the facts.

[Mikes@Micro]

Name one camp that is opening as an orphanage. Not happening. Stick to the facts.

He was responding to my hypothetical example of a loophole a camp could use. There are other loopholes out there esp for 18+

Ik yeshivos that opened as libraries, apt buildings, and more (and afaik they are keeping to the laws governing those like the rebeim do not walk into the building)

[123-Rosh]

Some perspective is in order.

The issue of opening camps is not just a question of whether we will have a good time this summer. There is so much more that's involved, which is why rabbonim, YES RABBONIM, are taking this very seriously.

I personally know a 15 year old girl who is struggling and wavering between staying in school and trying hard to succeed or dropping out and going OTD. Many people are working with her, and all agree that if she is in camp this year with her good friends, the good experience will have a positive effect on her. If she is on the streets, she will go down.

There are countless other teens in the same situation.

In today's world, for many teens camp is no longer a luxury. It is a necessity. The Rabbonim believe this, and they are willing to do whatever it takes, including using every conceivable loophole, to make this work. They believe there is an element of yaahoreg v'al yaaover to this. Obviously no one is getting killed. But the point is that they are willing to do everything possible short of getting arrested to open camps this year, even if it means losing millions in government funding or making a PR scene.

Imagine a drug addict or alocoholic who must get into rehab or he will destroy his family. If the governor decides to close the rehabs, you will do everything you can to figure out a way, short of getting arrested, to somehow open the rehab. It is a necessity not a luxury. In today's world generally, and specifically after 3 months of COVID 19 lockdowns, many teens need camp and cannot be allowed to wander the streets. For many of these teens, its a mental health crisis. This is why Rabbonim are doing everything they can, short of getting arrested, to open camps.

[Dan]

They believe there is an element of yaahoreg v'al yaaover to this.

And just like that, everything American Jews do in 2020 became a yaahoreg v'al yaaover.