Poll

Will there be sleep away summer camp this year?

Yes
12 (20.7%)
NO
33 (56.9%)
Only second month
13 (22.4%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Voting closed: April 17, 2020, 03:42:36 PM

Author Topic: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?  (Read 173904 times)

Offline Afrages6

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #860 on: June 25, 2020, 11:12:32 AM »
The sources I read said it was based on the medical advice of Dr. Zucker.
Oh please. Watch when Zucker announced it, he all but said that it came from Cuomo and he was just the messenger.

Offline Afrages6

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #861 on: June 25, 2020, 11:13:16 AM »
Isn’t the legislature complicit in that?
In a way yes. But these politicians could be jeopardizing their futures in the Democratic Party by trying to go against the governor.

Offline Dan

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #862 on: June 25, 2020, 11:14:57 AM »
Oh please. Watch when Zucker announced it, he all but said that it came from Cuomo and he was just the messenger.
That's called politics. Doesn't mean he didn't advise that.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #863 on: June 25, 2020, 11:18:10 AM »
That they shouldn't get into bed with Democrats?
You get what you pay for!

Offline Afrages6

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #864 on: June 25, 2020, 11:19:26 AM »
That's called politics. Doesn't mean he didn't advise that.
Right. So it was a political decision not a medical one.

Offline Dan

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #865 on: June 25, 2020, 11:20:38 AM »
Right. So it was a political decision not a medical one.
Not at all what I said.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline biobook

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #866 on: June 25, 2020, 11:29:16 AM »
Oh please. Watch when Zucker announced it, he all but said that it came from Cuomo and he was just the messenger.
Do you have a link to that?  I only saw it in writing.

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Offline Lurker

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #868 on: June 25, 2020, 11:33:29 AM »
https://twitter.com/yossigestetner/status/1272035261879369728?s=21

Yea.. He didn't say what you think he said. He said it was one of the tougher decisions he had to make, then corrected himself, because it was technically Cuomo's decision to make, so he changed it to advice he had to pass on [to the technical decision maker, Cuomo].
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #869 on: June 25, 2020, 11:35:43 AM »
Yea.. He didn't say what you think he said. He said it was one of the tougher decisions he had to make, then corrected himself, because it was technically Cuomo's decision to make, so he changed it to advice he had to pass on [to the technical decision maker, Cuomo].
That’s exactly what I think he said. The decision was Cuomo’s and his only. They said originally they were going to wait for the report on Kawasaki to come out but guess what? They decided to close the camps even before that.

Cuomo made the decision and then forced his crony Zucker to defend it.

Offline biobook

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #870 on: June 25, 2020, 11:36:02 AM »
Here's his written announcement, which he probably had more time to think about than the off-the-cuff remark:


Statement from New York State Health Commissioner Dr. Howard Zucker on Overnight Summer Camps

ALBANY, N.Y. (June 12, 2020) - Throughout this entire public health response, there isn't a single decision we have not made based on data and science, rather than emotion. Using the best currently available science and data, I have reached a decision to prohibit overnight children's camps from operating this season in New York State.

Unlike day camps, which are approved to open June 29, overnight camps are a difficult setting to manage social distancing and face covering and infection control practices. Overnight camps have congregate settings and sleeping arrangements in close quarters that present too many risks. In such a setting, even a single positive case in a camper or staff member could create an untenable quarantine situation and overwhelm camp health personnel that may not be able to handle a serious infectious outbreak of this nature.

I have fond memories of summer sleepaway camp as a kid and I understand the role they play in childhood development and the disappointment this decision may bring to families across the state. But amid the worst public health crisis in a century, my number one priority is the health and safety of all New Yorkers. And while infection rates are declining, we need to proceed with caution and take every step possible to avoid undoing all the progress New Yorkers have made in bending the curve and reopening the state safely and responsibly.

source: https://www.health.ny.gov/press/releases/2020/2020-06-12_overnight_camps_statement.htm

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #871 on: June 25, 2020, 11:37:25 AM »
That’s exactly what I think he said. The decision was Cuomo’s and his only. They said originally they were going to wait for the report on Kawasaki to come out but guess what? They decided to close the camps even before that.

Cuomo made the decision and then forced his crony Zucker to defend it.

No, you're not understanding. The slip was that Zucker actually made the decision. Zucker said as much. The problem is, Zucker doesn't have the power to make that decision, so he changed it to "advice" he gave Cuomo.
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Offline Afrages6

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #872 on: June 25, 2020, 11:39:01 AM »
No, you're not understanding. The slip was that Zucker actually made the decision. Zucker said as much. The problem is, Zucker doesn't have the power to make that decision, so he changed it to "advice" he gave Cuomo.
That’s not true. Zucker does have the power to make the decision. As the head of the DOH he decides wether the camps get permits or not.

Offline biobook

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #873 on: June 25, 2020, 11:48:03 AM »
That’s not true. Zucker does have the power to make the decision. As the head of the DOH he decides wether the camps get permits or not.

The point is that Cuomo is not acting as an irrational dictator.  The decision in NYS was based on an interpretation of the data and the science, so if you're trying to argue against the decision, you'll be more convincing if you argue against the data and science, rather than your dislike of Cuomo.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #874 on: June 25, 2020, 11:49:26 AM »
That is not how government works. If the "politicians in Albany" wanted a different outcome, it would have happened. This is called passing the buck.

Not according to Felder and Eichenstein who tried their utmost along with many others, but to no avail. They have been very very clear that this decision was made by Cuomo and only by Cuomo.

No, you're not understanding. The slip was that Zucker actually made the decision. Zucker said as much. The problem is, Zucker doesn't have the power to make that decision, so he changed it to "advice" he gave Cuomo.

I beg to differ. Zucker did not make the decision, Cuomo did. And it was purely political.

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #875 on: June 25, 2020, 11:51:19 AM »
That’s not true. Zucker does have the power to make the decision. As the head of the DOH he decides wether the camps get permits or not.

Someone with a better understanding of government will correct me if I'm wrong, but DOH doesn't have legislative powers. My understanding is their role is to advise the government and enforce the laws that fall under their purview. While they ultimately issue permits, they cannot deny one without legal backing.
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #876 on: June 25, 2020, 11:52:19 AM »
Cuomo did. And it was purely political.

Curious, what political benefit was there for Cuomo here?
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #877 on: June 25, 2020, 11:52:37 AM »
That they shouldn't get into bed with Democrats?

And the governor of PA is a what? How come he didn't ban sleepaway camps "based on science and data"?

Answering my question with a question is not an answer. You know good and well that my question shows how hypocritical Cuomo is.

Offline Afrages6

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #878 on: June 25, 2020, 11:53:18 AM »
The point is that Cuomo is not acting as an irrational dictator.  The decision in NYS was based on an interpretation of the data and the science, so if you're trying to argue against the decision, you'll be more convincing if you argue against the data and science, rather than your dislike of Cuomo.
Like the Kawasaki report they said they were basing the decision on?

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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
« Reply #879 on: June 25, 2020, 11:56:30 AM »
Curious, what political benefit was there for Cuomo here?

To flex his power muscles and show that he will not be cowed by pressure from anyone that he feels he will not bow to.

And how would it be to his detriment or disadvantage to yes allow sleepaway camps?