Poll

Is your shul secretly open right now?

Shul is closed and locked NYC
45 (40.2%)
Shul is "closed" but secretly functioning NYC
6 (5.4%)
Shul is officially not closed NYC
0 (0%)
Shul is closed and locked OOT
28 (25%)
Shul is "closed" but secretly functioning OOT
2 (1.8%)
Shul is officially not closed OOT
0 (0%)
Shul is closed and locked Lakewood
31 (27.7%)
Shul is "closed" but secretly functioning Lakewood
0 (0%)
Shul is officially not closed Lakewood
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 112

Author Topic: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?  (Read 37941 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #100 on: April 12, 2020, 06:27:12 PM »
Please stay out of this discussion. You'll never understand. Thank you.
I will never understand? Why? Your religion is the only religion that matters? On this holiest day of the year Catholics are celebrating mass online and for some reason you feel you are special?
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #101 on: April 12, 2020, 06:28:01 PM »
Shuls are essential everyday, today it's essential for shuls to remain closed.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #102 on: April 12, 2020, 06:28:29 PM »
Please stay out of this discussion. You'll never understand. Thank you.

Uncalled for, and he isn't wrong.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #103 on: April 12, 2020, 06:28:37 PM »
I will never understand? Why? Your religion is the only religion that matters? On this holiest day of the year Catholics are celebrating mass online and for some reason you feel you are special?
No idea why you wouldn't understand, but to be fair, this same unfortunate debate is happening among churches and mosques.
It's certainly hard for anyone of faith as going to a place of worship is the natural instinct during a crisis.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #104 on: April 12, 2020, 06:30:11 PM »
No idea why you wouldn't understand, but to be fair, this same unfortunate debate is happening among churches and mosques.
It's certainly hard for anyone of faith.
Catholics churches are not the same as churches and mosques but I wouldn't expect you to understand.  ;)
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Offline KSMH

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #105 on: April 12, 2020, 06:30:19 PM »
No shuls are not essential. What part of this don't you understand?
To you, they might not be, but to many they are. There are many whom believe prayer in shul has a power over prayer outside.

If USPS  locations staying open is called essential why cant a shul? And many old people work at USPS. As far as I know, UPS offers home pick up and a mail box works just fine in most cases. The risk of death for USPS to remain open is beyond.

While one or many Religious leaders might think his place of worship should be closed [ such as mine] there are some that think they should be open. 

If social distancing can be practiced in a grocery why can't it  be practiced in a place of worship.

There are many that closed because they know it cant be enforced. But there are some that think it can be enforced.

Remember; your essential is not someone elses and someone else's might not be yours.

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #106 on: April 12, 2020, 06:32:46 PM »
No idea why you wouldn't understand, but to be fair, this same unfortunate debate is happening among churches and mosques.
It's certainly hard for anyone of faith as going to a place of worship is the natural instinct during a crisis.
Also, there is a focus on group prayer specifically with some aspects only done with a minyan. Is that the case in other religions or is mass more of getting inspiration from a preacher or the like which can be equally effective online? (this is a question. I do not know how the other religions look at it)
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #107 on: April 12, 2020, 06:33:51 PM »
To you, they might not be, but to many they are. There are many whom believe prayer in shul has a power over prayer outside.

If USPS  locations staying open is called essential why cant a shul? And many old people work at USPS. As far as I know, UPS offers home pick up and a mail box works just fine in most cases. The risk of death for USPS to remain open is beyond.

While one or many Religious leaders might think his place of worship should be closed [ such as mine] there are some that think they should be open. 

If social distancing can be practiced in a grocery why can't it  be practiced in a place of worship.

There are many that closed because they know it cant be enforced. But there are some that think it can be enforced.

Remember; your essential is not someone elses and someone else's might not be yours.
I believe your sentiment is correct but you’re still misusing and misunderstanding examples
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #108 on: April 12, 2020, 06:34:30 PM »
Remember; your essential is not someone elses and someone else's might not be yours.
You are missing the point. I am not the one that is saying they are or are not essential. Your Governor, Mayor or whoever in your state is making that decision.
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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #109 on: April 12, 2020, 06:36:00 PM »
If social distancing can be practiced in a grocery why can't it  be practiced in a place of worship.

There are many that closed because they know it cant be enforced. But there are some that think it can be enforced.

פוק חזי
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #110 on: April 12, 2020, 06:40:50 PM »
No shuls are not essential. What part of this don't you understand?

This.

Please stay out of this discussion. You'll never understand. Thank you.

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Offline Yef

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #111 on: April 12, 2020, 06:41:01 PM »
Please stay out of this discussion. You'll never understand. Thank you.
I’ll back you up on this statement. Everyone else is being to nice.For us, It is up to our rabbanim to decide what is essential. Some say one way, some  say different. Everyone should follow his rov.
That is basic yesod of yoddishkeit.
and Btw side point, no one has right to call authorities on someone they disagree with, especially if they come and see that nothing is being done wrong.

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #112 on: April 12, 2020, 06:43:38 PM »
I’ll back you up on this statement. Everyone else is being to nice.For us, It is up to our rabbanim to decide what is essential. Some say one way, some  say different. Everyone should follow his rov.
That is basic yesod of yoddishkeit.
and Btw side point, no one has right to call authorities on someone they disagree with, especially if they come and see that nothing is being done wrong.
I don't want to misunderstand. You are saying if what your rabbanim says violates the law you will follow the rabbanim and not the our constitution?
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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #113 on: April 12, 2020, 06:45:08 PM »
I don't want to misunderstand. You are saying if what your rabbanim says violates the law you will follow the rabbanim and not the our constitution?

I feel like you've had this conversation before...
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Offline Euclid

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #114 on: April 12, 2020, 06:45:46 PM »

Remember; your essential is not someone elses and someone else's might not be yours.


Except in a scenario where "someone else's essential" is deemed non-essential by the same deity who proclaims all yidden are essential when alive, not dead. Vnishmartem and Uvacharta bchaim deem minyan non-essential; what is the logic to say otherwise? No whataboutistic answers please.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #115 on: April 12, 2020, 06:46:09 PM »
I feel like you've had this conversation before...
He can't have enough ;D

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #116 on: April 12, 2020, 06:47:00 PM »
What a bunch of idiots. Why the insistence on trying so hard to make as much of a chilul hashem as you can? What exactly are you guys trying to do?
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #117 on: April 12, 2020, 06:47:35 PM »
This whole conversation.

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Offline KSMH

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #118 on: April 12, 2020, 06:52:44 PM »
You are missing the point. I am not the one that is saying they are essential. Your Governor, Mayor or whoever in your state is making that decision.
While I am not attending shul I know of one open where the police stop by every day to make sure sure no more 10 people are there and that they practice social distancing.

My belief; from a constitutional perspective is that legally, a government cannot enact or enforce a law that has stricter rules for  religious events then for grocery stores or other functions, it just wont stand in court.

A government cannot legally decide if a religious event is essential, if its essential, as some decided then the guidelines are the same as for groceries if not more lenient. As a matter of fact  NJ executive order 107 clearly exempts
"leaving the home for an educational, religious, or
political reason;"

I can do some research if some request it, there are some cases out there.

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Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
« Reply #119 on: April 12, 2020, 07:04:23 PM »
While I am not attending shul I know of one open where the police stop by every day to make sure sure no more 10 people are there and that they practice social distancing.

My belief; from a constitutional perspective is that legally, a government cannot enact or enforce a law that has stricter rules for  religious events then for grocery stores or other functions, it just wont stand in court.

A government cannot legally decide if a religious event is essential, if its essential, as some decided then the guidelines are the same as for groceries if not more lenient. As a matter of fact  NJ executive order 107 clearly exempts
"leaving the home for an educational, religious, or
political reason;"

I can do some research if some request it, there are some cases out there.
This would not stand up in any court. Go find your cases.
Feelings don't care about your facts