Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?

[hvaces42]

1) My Shul has been closed for a month.

2) I have not joined outdoor Minyanim since then.

3) A decision to close a Shul is made by Daas Torah only, period.
Not because we think it's the right thing to do it logically, emotionally, or even legally.
This is something that is special to us.
We have Daas Torah to guide us through everything in life.

So those that havent closed are following Daas Torah and Ailu V'Ailu? Or maybe, just maybe the rabbonim that stayed open have a certain negias and didnt ask because they know better.

[S209]

1) My Shul has been closed for a month.

2) I have not joined outdoor Minyanim since then.

3) A decision to close a Shul is made by Daas Torah only, period.
Not because we think it's the right thing to do it logically, emotionally, or even legally.
This is something that is special to us.
We have Daas Torah to guide us through everything in life.

Straw man alert

[hvaces42]

This was the zmanim chart for yom tov that was distributed by the person in charge of doing so for my shul. He makes it abundently clear that everyone is supposed to daven at home. He left off the Shul name from the masthead to make that clear as the shul name is always on the masthead...and he goes and davens with the Rov over Yom Tov and Shabbos.

What message do I, a layman, take from that? I am just utterly befuddled by what I am supposed to be doing! (Hint: I am not, but some poor shmigegi in shul probably is.)

[JMHO]

So those that havent closed are following Daas Torah and Ailu V'Ailu?

All the Daas Torah that I've seen or heard, especially the last 2 weeks, has been unanimous.

Or maybe, just maybe the rabbonim that stayed open have a certain negias and didnt ask because they know better.

Very likely or they are a Chossid Shota. I have yet to see a clear Psak to stay open.

[KSMH]

1) My Shul has been closed for a month.

2) I have not joined outdoor Minyanim since then.

3) A decision to close a Shul is made by Daas Torah only, period.
Not because we think it's the right thing to do it logically, emotionally, or even legally.
This is something that is special to us.
We have Daas Torah to guide us through everything in life.

I agree on #3 but your Daas Torah is not another's Daas Torah.

As jews need to understand more then ever that prospecting another's religion is important.

[JMHO]

What message do I, a layman, take from that?

That they are open as usual and should be reported.

[aygart]

Proves point that till now it was not illegal in NY.  Even now I doubt it'll stand in court. It possibly will, but will require some rigorous defending.

I assure you that they will not even be granted a stay.

[KSMH]

I assure you that they will not even be granted a stay.

That I agree with, there most likely will not be a Judge that will grant a stay during this outbreak, after the outbreak they will feel more comfortable doing so, understandably.

Sadly many courts in the US are afraid of political attacks and public opinion over following the actual letter of the law. Just look at how many anti trump cases have been overturned or stayed by the supreme court.

[aygart]

That I agree with, there most likely will not be a Judge that will grant a stay during this outbreak, after the outbreak they will feel more comfortable doing so, understandably.

Sadly many courts in the US are afraid of political attacks and public opinion over following the actual letter of the law. Just look at how many anti trump cases have been overturned or stayed by the supreme court.

No matter which court would adjudicate it the rule would be upheld so long as it is evenly applied to all similar gatherings. A grocery is not similar.

[hvaces42]

That they are open as usual and should be reported.

Ummm, no. They are open to whomever the rabbi invites. Yet everyone was told to daven at home.

Forget abut the legalities.

Where do I take this schizoid behavior? How can I look my Rav in the eyes after this is all said and done and have any respect for him? I am asking a very serious question. I am totally at a loss at how I as a regular mispallel can go back there after this is all over.

[JMHO]

Ummm, no. They are open to whomever the rabbi invites. Yet everyone was told to daven at home.

Forget abut the legalities.

Where do I take this schizoid behavior? How can I look my Rav in the eyes after this is all said and done and have any respect for him? I am asking a very serious question. I am totally at a loss at how I as a regular mispallel can go back there after this is all over.

I hear you and do not envy your question at all.

Maybe you can call the Rav and ask him point blank? Obviously he's a Nogeia B'davor but perhaps he'll have something to say that will give you clarity either way, either something to understand him and then you'd be ok with continuing to Daven in that Shul and respect him or he will make your decision to find a new Shul easier...

[hvaces42]

I hear you and do not envy your question at all.

Maybe you can call the Rav and ask him point blank? Obviously he's a Nogeia B'davor but perhaps he'll have something to say that will give you clarity - either way, either understanding him and continuing to Daven in that Shul and respect him or make your decision to find a new Shul easier...

His answer will invariably be one of the following:

1. I never told you to stay home.
2. The shul is open as long as we can safely daven.
3. The shul is mine and I can do with it as I please.
4. If you dont like it I cant stop you from going elsewhere.

If finding a new shul was so easy I would have found one already.

[CountValentine]

I feel like you've had this conversation before...

...yes but I never received an answer. I wonder why, NOT! 

[CountValentine]

3) A decision to close a Shul is made by Daas Torah only, period.
Not because we think it's the right thing to do it logically, emotionally, or even legally.

I guess I just received my answer.
Probably best to ban me from this thread, delete it or lock it.

[KSMH]

...yes but I never received an answer. I wonder why, NOT! 

Read "Dina Malchuta Dina" on wikipedia.

Didn't read it to see if I agree with all but it should give you a basic understanding of the position of many jews.

Now, you have received the answer you were seeking.

Nothing to Hide but just takes some time to write a proper answer.

[aygart]

I guess I just received my answer.
Probably best to ban me from this thread, delete it or lock it.

Another option would have been for you to not do everything @Yehuda57 regularly complains about. There were plenty of churches which were just as stupid as these people.

[CountValentine]

Read "Dina Malchuta Dina" on wikipedia.

Didn't read it to see if I agree with all but it should give you a basic understanding of the position of many jews.

Now, you have received the answer you were seeking.

Nothing to Hide but just takes some time to write a proper answer.

My answer would be to have @JMHO read it.

[JMHO]

My answer would be to have @JMHO read it.

I did. This is still Daas Torah's decision to make, not ours.

[CountValentine]

I did. This is still Daas Torah's decision to make, not ours.

So you don't agree with "the law of the land"?

[yeshivabucher]

So you don't agree with "the law of the land"?

not per say but not all circumstances qualify to follow it