Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?

[aygart]

Correct on 107, but even if removed there are still many businesses allowed to operate that are considered essential by NJ which in reality are not, such as building affordable housing. Due to these lapses in law, restrictions on religious gatherings would be deemed illegal.

I am guessing, without looking such laws in NY would suffer the same issues. There is a reason it took Cuomo so long to get his act together. Even now I wonder if it'll be upheld in a court of law.

No way. You are dead wrong.




Also, leaving the house for such purposes is not equal to a facility operating and having gatherings.

[Dan]

How many gedarim do we have that are in place for things that are far less than sakanas nefashos? Think harchakos etc. The geder to not killing your neighbor, friend, shulmate is not making a minyan. Why is that so darn difficult to appreciate? If one person messes up one minyan and one person dies because of it then ALL the minyanim were for naught.

Shocking that this has to be explained. Shocking!

[hvaces42]

Shocking that this has to be explained. Shocking!

Yet here I am...

[CountValentine]

I'm not advocating not following the rule of law.

[yitzgar]

but to even discuss any laws pertaining to this as being those unjust laws is utterly ridiculous.

And this is why this discussion should be in a different thread, so as not to give even a possibility of a chance of considering this issue as being included in said discussion.

[Yehuda57]

Can I use a gif as an avatar?

[yelped]

How many gedarim do we have that are in place for things that are far less than sakanas nefashos? Think harchakos etc. The geder to not killing your neighbor, friend, shulmate is not making a minyan. Why is that so darn difficult to appreciate? If one person messes up one minyan and one person dies because of it then ALL the minyanim were for naught.

100%. I think I was pretty clear with that. I'm just saying that separated by porches might have been enough of a heker to be different than other minyanim, but people are still missing the whole point in the first place!

[CountValentine]

Can I use a gif as an avatar?

Chaim has a good lawyer. He is mad I woke him up. 

[Yehuda57]

Chaim has a good lawyer. He is mad I woke him up. 

He found a lawyer that works chol hamoed? (you said good lawyer, so obviously he's Jewish)

[ushdadude]

Not everyone seems to agree with that statement apparently.

they follow a different torah apparently

[Yef]

Shocking that this has to be explained. Shocking!

You are not in ny. Almost everyone I know has had this disease in one way shape or form, from many different types of neighborhoods. THere is NO way to stop the spread of this disease, period.  Look up what the doctors that instituted this have said. It is ONLY to slow the curve. Davening in a minyan is not the cause of people getting it. If everyone was welded into their houses for many months maybe it would stop the spread ( not happening). So don’t blame 11 people on their porches for doing any harm to anyone. Especially if they spoke it out with their rabbanim.

[aygart]

100%. I think I was pretty clear with that. I'm just saying that separated by porches might have been enough of a heker to be different than other minyanim, but people are still missing the whole point in the first place!

I will tell you from experience that it is not. I know of a bunch which stated that way and ended up with people all over the place and then gathered closely too.

[hvaces42]

100%. I think I was pretty clear with that. I'm just saying that separated by porches might have been enough of a heker to be different than other minyanim, but people are still missing the whole point in the first place!

My neighbors porch is 3 feet from mine. If we daven outside near the gate or even 10 feet away from the gate its of no use. Watch Rabbi Freundlich's video if you cant understand that. I know he was very sick. Therefore I forego that option. Even though we are technically separated, we really arent.

[CountValentine]

(you said good lawyer, so obviously he's Jewish)

Better than good, he converted to Catholicism. 

[moko]

In other words, just because communist Russia banned Judaism, doesn't mean Jews gave up their Judaism there.

How is that black and white? Should Judaism close down because the government said it should?

Shocking that this has to be explained. Shocking!

[avromie7]

You are not in ny. Almost everyone I know has had this disease in one way shape or form, from many different types of neighborhoods. THere is NO way to stop the spread of this disease, period.  Look up what the doctors that instituted this have said. It is ONLY to slow the curve. Davening in a minyan is not the cause of people getting it. If everyone was welded into their houses for many months maybe it would stop the spread ( not happening). So don’t blame 11 people on their porches for doing any harm to anyone. Especially if they spoke it out with their rabbanim.

The fact that you wrote "only" in all caps shows your sheer ignorance.

[aygart]

You are not in ny. Almost everyone I know has had this disease in one way shape or form, from many different types of neighborhoods. THere is NO way to stop the spread of this disease, period.  Look up what the doctors that instituted this have said. It is ONLY to slow the curve. Davening in a minyan is not the cause of people getting it. If everyone was welded into their houses for many months maybe it would stop the spread ( not happening). So don’t blame 11 people on their porches for doing any harm to anyone. Especially if they spoke it out with their rabbanim.

Since when does the Torah advocate making up your own svaros about life and death?

[yelped]

My neighbors porch is 3 feet from mine. If we daven outside near the gate or even 10 feet away from the gate its of no use. Watch Rabbi Freundlich's video if you cant understand that. I know he was very sick. Therefore I forego that option. Even though we are technically separated, we really arent.

I will tell you from experience that it is not. I know of a bunch which stated that way and ended up with people all over the place and then gathered closely too.

Thanks. You are both right. Other neighbors might join and not everywhere are the porches far enough.

[hvaces42]

You are not in ny. Almost everyone I know has had this disease in one way shape or form, from many different types of neighborhoods. THere is NO way to stop the spread of this disease, period.  Look up what the doctors that instituted this have said. It is ONLY to slow the curve. Davening in a minyan is not the cause of people getting it. If everyone was welded into their houses for many months maybe it would stop the spread ( not happening). So don’t blame 11 people on their porches for doing any harm to anyone. Especially if they spoke it out with their rabbanim.

Ah the everyone had it excuse. I have yet to see exactly 11 people on porches. One of my backyard neighbors on the other street was unaware that other people were joining in his minyan until I made him aware of the still contagious people that were participating in his minyan. 

[Shkop]

Shocking that this has to be explained. Shocking!

Its shocking but keep in mind that there are plenty of stores that are open. I don't know about you (considering how often you travel) but there are people that would never miss a minyan for anything, kal vchomer for pleasure. How is a shul less important than a store?

I think an obvious answer is that in a time of danger one can pray at home. (One can even daven shachris at netz, which I think is better than  minyan btzibur. If the minyanim referenced above truly care, why not do that? Obviously it wont help for Mincha and Maariv.)

On the other hand, food and medicines must remain available. The fact that you see people not taking it seriously enough is nobody's fault but their own. Rabbonim and Doctors have been very clear that one must be very cautious when going out for essentials.