Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim

[KSMH]

Families are allowed to get together, it's in  EO 107,

2.All New Jersey residents shall remain home or at their place of residence unless they are

"4) visiting family or other individuals with whom the resident has a close personal relationship, such as those for whom the individual is a caretaker or romantic partner"

While outside
"6) walking, running, operating a wheelchair, or engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners while following best social distancing practices with other individuals, including staying six feet apart"

The F&Q is vague and outright misleading.

[shaulyaakov]

Families are allowed to get together, it's in  EO 107,

2.All New Jersey residents shall remain home or at their place of residence unless they are

"4) visiting family or other individuals with whom the resident has a close personal relationship, such as those for whom the individual is a caretaker or romantic partner"

While outside
"6) walking, running, operating a wheelchair, or engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners while following best social distancing practices with other individuals, including staying six feet apart"

The F&Q is vague and outright misleading.

How many minyanim would meet the immediate family criteria?

[zh cohen]

Families are allowed to get together, it's in  EO 107,

2.All New Jersey residents shall remain home or at their place of residence unless they are

"4) visiting family or other individuals with whom the resident has a close personal relationship, such as those for whom the individual is a caretaker or romantic partner"

While outside
"6) walking, running, operating a wheelchair, or engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners while following best social distancing practices with other individuals, including staying six feet apart"

The F&Q is vague and outright misleading.

How is any of this related to a minyan?

[S209]

Families are allowed to get together, it's in  EO 107,

2.All New Jersey residents shall remain home or at their place of residence unless they are

"4) visiting family or other individuals with whom the resident has a close personal relationship, such as those for whom the individual is a caretaker or romantic partner"

While outside
"6) walking, running, operating a wheelchair, or engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners while following best social distancing practices with other individuals, including staying six feet apart"

The F&Q is vague and outright misleading.

If you feel this is supportive of your argument then I don’t know how to disagree

[CountValentine]

[KSMH]

How many minyanim would meet the immediate family criteria?

My point was.
1) The EO in it of itself doesn't ban a shul being open, there is more in there then just, the leaving your house for religious reasons. Please read thru all the EO's and think about it from a legal stand point.
2) Claiming that the Q&A is legal clarification from the OEM, it's just not. And even if yes, would never stand in court, it contradicts the actual text of the EO or is just to vague to be enforceable.

[moko]

Number 6 seems pretty supportive of outdoor minyanim as long as everyone is 6ft apart. Your essentially doing an outdoor activity alone while maintaining social distancing practices

[S209]

Number 6 seems pretty supportive of outdoor minyanim as long as everyone is 6ft apart. Your essentially doing an outdoor activity alone while maintaining social distancing practices

The only thing I can tell you as far as this argument goes is your reading comprehension seems to be somewhat lacking

[S209]

My point was.
1) The EO in it of itself doesn't ban a shul being open, there is more in there then just, the leaving your house for religious reasons. Please read thru all the EO's and think about it from a legal stand point.
2) Claiming that the Q&A is legal clarification from the OEM, it's just not. And even if yes, would never stand in court, it contradicts the actual text of the EO or is just to vague to be enforceable.

You insinuated upthread that the text allows non-porch outdoor minyanim. Your proof is from text that explicitly forbids what you said.

[moko]

You insinuated upthread that the text allows non-porch outdoor minyanim. Your proof is from text that explicitly forbids what you said.

While outside
"6) walking, running, operating a wheelchair, or engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners while following best social distancing practices with other individuals, including staying six feet apart"

praying alone outside while maintaining social distancing including staying 6ft apart

[aygart]

Families are allowed to get together, it's in  EO 107,

2.All New Jersey residents shall remain home or at their place of residence unless they are

"4) visiting family or other individuals with whom the resident has a close personal relationship, such as those for whom the individual is a caretaker or romantic partner"

While outside
"6) walking, running, operating a wheelchair, or engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners while following best social distancing practices with other individuals, including staying six feet apart"

The F&Q is vague and outright misleading.

Ah so everyone in the minyan will say that the others there are romantic partners?

[moko]

Ah so everyone in the minyan will say that the others there are romantic partners?

you need to r ad number 6 more carefully. You don't need to maintain social distancing outdoors with a romantic partner. Only with others. It's not mandatory to do outdoor activities with a partner rather an allowance. You can do outdoor activities including praying, running, walking, etc whole maintaining social distancing.

[aygart]

you need to r ad number 6 more carefully. You don't need to maintain social distancing outdoors with a romantic partner. Only with others. It's not mandatory to do outdoor activities with a partner rather an allowance. You can do outdoor activities including praying, running, walking, etc whole maintaining social distancing.

That is when not part of a "gathering"

[KSMH]

Families are allowed to get together, it's in  EO 107,

2.All New Jersey residents shall remain home or at their place of residence unless they are

"4) visiting family or other individuals with whom the resident has a close personal relationship, such as those for whom the individual is a caretaker or romantic partner"

While outside
"6) walking, running, operating a wheelchair, or engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners while following best social distancing practices with other individuals, including staying six feet apart"

The F&Q is vague and outright misleading.

This post was  in response to the  previous two posts which mentioned the Q&A and the post that was misleadingly, outright banning any get together.

[moko]

That is when not part of a "gathering"

doesn't specify that. Also doesn't define a gathering. I'm not supporting one way or the other but the language is very vague and open to interpretation. Definitely not

text that explicitly forbids what you said.

[zh cohen]

you need to r ad number 6 more carefully. You don't need to maintain social distancing outdoors with a romantic partner. Only with others. It's not mandatory to do outdoor activities with a partner rather an allowance. You can do outdoor activities including praying, running, walking, etc whole maintaining social distancing.

It says that you are allowed to be outside of you are
1 - walking
2 - Running
3 - operating a wheelchair
4 - engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners.

Davening is not an "outdoor activity", even if you are davening outside.

Even if it was, it can only be done with "immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners."

[S209]

Umm no, it’s actually really REALLY clear

Families are allowed to get together, it's in  EO 107,

2.All New Jersey residents shall remain home or at their place of residence unlessthey are

"4) visiting family or other individuals with whom the resident has a close personal relationship, such as those for whom the individual is a caretaker or romantic partner"

While outside
"6) walking, running, operating a wheelchair, or engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners while following best social distancing practices with other individuals, including staying six feet apart"

The F&Q is vague and outright misleading.

[S209]

It says that you are allowed to be outside of you are
1 - walking
2 - Running
3 - operating a wheelchair
4 - engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners.

Davening is not an "outdoor activity", even if you are davening outside.

Even if it was, it can only be done with "immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners."

As I stated. The only explanation I can think of is reading comprehension. I don’t mean to be condescending I just don’t understand how this conversation continues with the data presented thus far.

[S209]

This post was  in response to the  previous two posts which mentioned the Q&A and the post that was misleadingly, outright banning any get together.

You insinuated earlier that outdoor minyanim are legal.

Outdoor are illegal?
In what state?

When challenged, this is how you responded

Families are allowed to get together, it's in  EO 107,

2.All New Jersey residents shall remain home or at their place of residence unless they are

"4) visiting family or other individuals with whom the resident has a close personal relationship, such as those for whom the individual is a caretaker or romantic partner"

While outside
"6) walking, running, operating a wheelchair, or engaging in outdoor activities with immediate family members, caretakers, household members, or romantic partners while following best social distancing practices with other individuals, including staying six feet apart"

The F&Q is vague and outright misleading.

[CountValentine]

doesn't specify that. Also doesn't define a gathering. I'm not supporting one way or the other but the language is very vague and open to interpretation. Definitely not

By your logic I can have a poker game with ten people as long as we sit 6 feet apart?