Author Topic: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim  (Read 15772 times)

Offline Shkop

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #120 on: April 13, 2020, 05:55:02 PM »
That says nothing about what you are referring to. They're talking about if you're in a place where there is minyan. Not about in a place where there is no minyan.
OK. If one is in a place where there is a minyan and he an Anus (see how commentaries explain that) he is patur.
M.B., Beir Heitev, and others talk about other cases. They say one may not miss minyan even to make money.

Of-course if one is already somewhere where there is no minyan, he should try to daven at the time when the shul would be davening, as per Mchaber. But if we see that one is permitted to miss tfila btzibur only if he is an Onus (such as if he is weak), then certainly it would seem he shouldn't pick up and leave to a place that does not have a minyan if it is unnecessary.

I will admit however that you make a good point about pointing out the specific case he is referring to. If you see someone actually discussing this exact case of leaving to a place without a minyan let me know. But I do think it is clear
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Online EliJelly

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #121 on: April 13, 2020, 05:55:17 PM »
He actually says if you live where there is no minyan you should try to pray when they pray, even though you are alone.

He says one should try to make minyan. Then he says that if you are an Ones then there is another method. Vacation (unless truly necessary and I would argue unable to be close to a minyan on vacation) is not an Ones.

See Mishna Brurah. There is a discussion about missing minyan if you will lose money which I think has grounding. I think if it is just so that you will make money, you shouldn't. Vacation would seem to be a kal vchomer.
You might be right on the rest, but on the one I highlighted you're wrong. People were doing business trips ever since.
I will admit however that you make a good point about pointing out the specific case he is referring to. If you see someone actually discussing this exact case of leaving to a place without a minyan let me know. But I do think it is clear
The shevet halevi quoted above addresses this clearly.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 05:58:30 PM by EliJelly »

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #122 on: April 13, 2020, 05:56:34 PM »
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1416&st=&pgnum=25
Thanks. While I understand the Shevet Halevi's reasoning, I don't think there's a solid Reaih from שיחרר עבדו, because of course it's a Mitzva if you can do it, but it didn't mean that you can't go to a place that doesn't have one.

Offline Shkop

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #123 on: April 13, 2020, 05:57:42 PM »
You might be right on the rest, but on the one I highlighted you're wrong. People were doing business trips ever since.
How am I wrong? I am merely quoting.

Regarding your question, I can answer you that a business trip may fall into the category of losing money. But be sure to speak to your posek.
A democracy is a form of government, not an intrinsic truth

Offline Shkop

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #124 on: April 13, 2020, 06:00:39 PM »
Thanks. While I understand the Shevet Halevi's reasoning, I don't think there's a solid Reaih from שיחרר עבדו, because of course it's a Mitzva if you can do it, but it didn't mean that you can't go to a place that doesn't have one.
So he talks about our exact case. Very nice.
He says that it is pashut it is assur.
You want to argue with one of his proofs? Go ahead. But at least it is discussed black and white.
A democracy is a form of government, not an intrinsic truth

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #125 on: April 13, 2020, 06:02:39 PM »
So he talks about our exact case. Very nice.
He says that it is pashut it is assur.
You want to argue with one of his proofs? Go ahead. But at least it is discussed black and white.
Lol.
How am I wrong? I am merely quoting.

Regarding your question, I can answer you that a business trip may fall into the category of losing money. But be sure to speak to your posek.
;D

Offline Shkop

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #126 on: April 13, 2020, 06:03:12 PM »
A democracy is a form of government, not an intrinsic truth

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #127 on: April 13, 2020, 06:04:57 PM »
I dont follow....
I just lost patience.

Offline chulent613

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Offline Shkop

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #129 on: April 13, 2020, 06:14:50 PM »
I just lost patience.
OK.
Anyway, there are clear sources aside from Shulchan Aruch and commentaries on the page.
A democracy is a form of government, not an intrinsic truth

Offline aygart

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #130 on: April 13, 2020, 07:11:32 PM »
OK.
Anyway, there are clear sources aside from Shulchan Aruch and commentaries on the page.
What about someone who has a business based on writing about pleasure trips?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online EliJelly

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #131 on: April 13, 2020, 07:29:43 PM »
What about someone who has a business based on writing about pleasure trips?
Great point! But no way he had Dan in mind anyway ;)

Offline doodle

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #132 on: April 13, 2020, 08:20:25 PM »
I just lost patience.
When You lose an argument...
You say Oh I just lost patience?
Your a total fraud
Salt Is Good

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #133 on: April 13, 2020, 08:28:19 PM »
When You lose an argument...
You say Oh I just lost patience?
Your a total fraud
Hi, doodle. How are you doing today? I just did teshuva and decided that it was time to listen to the wise words of Shlomo Hamelech.

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #134 on: April 13, 2020, 08:38:53 PM »
What about someone who has a business based on writing about pleasure trips?

Great point! But no way he had Dan in mind anyway ;)

But who would he be targeting  :-X