Author Topic: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim  (Read 41311 times)

Offline ari3

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #140 on: April 14, 2020, 01:15:05 AM »
OK, maybe it's the cabin fever, but I've had enough of this holier than thou attitude and negative energy.

Let's try a 1 week timeout for both of you. Feel free to come back in 7 days and try again without the condescension and without repeating the same point dozens of times in multiple threads like a broken record.
Thank you for stepping in.
Some of the threads have devolved from constructive and respectful discussion (and disagreement) of ideas and opinions to bickering and name calling.

Offline myi

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #141 on: April 14, 2020, 01:17:29 AM »
OK, maybe it's the cabin fever, but I've had enough of this holier than thou attitude and negative energy.

Let's try a 1 week timeout for both of you. Feel free to come back in 7 days and try again without the condescension and without repeating the same point dozens of times in multiple threads like a broken record.
It's amazing we need mommy to step in!  :-[
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Offline Dan

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #142 on: April 14, 2020, 01:18:02 AM »
Thank you for stepping in.
Some of the threads have devolved from constructive and respectful discussion (and disagreement) of ideas and opinions to bickering and name calling.
Agreed. Going to have to pivot and hand out more suspensions to people who insist on turning healthy discussion and debate into personal vendettas and sinas chinam.

Even DDMS (moderated) comments and PMs have been getting nastier of late. I understand that people are on edge, but that doesn't mean you should take it out on others and put them down.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Shmobaum

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #143 on: April 14, 2020, 01:49:58 AM »
Can we stop JUDGING JUDGING JUDGING ppl nonstop???
Enough. Everyone plz go home and to whatever the hell you feel is right. This whole argument of shuls is like חמץ שעבר עליו הפסח

Offline Vesko

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #144 on: April 14, 2020, 01:56:24 AM »
יה'ר שיהא חלקי אם מתים בדרך לעשות מצוה

If I have to die from this virus, I daven it should be from doing a mitzvah and not going to the liquor store or home depot. I also daven that I don't give it to anyone else. My personal mortality I can come to terms with (I currently don't have any dependants), but the concept of causing another's death or debilitation I can't.

Offline Dan

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #145 on: April 14, 2020, 01:59:13 AM »
יה'ר שיהא חלקי אם מתים בדרך לעשות מצוה

If I have to die from this virus, I daven it should be from doing a mitzvah and not going to the liquor store or home depot. I also daven that I don't give it to anyone else. My personal mortality I can come to terms with (I currently don't have any dependants), but the concept of causing another's death or debilitation I can't.
The equation should be much simpler.
Stay home, don't die or cause death. Realize that very few things are truly essential and solutions can be found to have them brought to you. And thank G-d that this mageifa kills less than 10% of people instead of others that kill over 50%.
The end.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Vesko

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #146 on: April 14, 2020, 02:18:42 AM »
The equation should be much simpler.
Stay home, don't die or cause death. Realize that very few things are truly essential and solutions can be found to have them brought to you. And thank G-d that this mageifa kills less than 10% of people instead of others that kill over 50%.
The end.

You realize there's a bit of cognitive dissonance inherent in saying that nobody should go outside, but then going on to advocate getting deliveries, which necessitates people going outside for you. Milk doesn't grow on grocery store shelves, and Amazon and supermarket packages don't grow on your doorsteps.


I'm not gonna pick apart the semantics, because we agree with each other. People should minimize their unprotected outside dealings with others in order to arrest viral spread as much as possible. That being said, having nobody go around outside is completely and utterly impossible under any circumstances. Therefore, one should daven that everyone should stay healthy, that the sick should be healed, that the mourners be comforted, and that he not be the cause of any harm to befall others. Realize, that even with all our efforts, that HKBH runs the world.

Offline Dan

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #147 on: April 14, 2020, 02:27:33 AM »
You realize there's a bit of cognitive dissonance inherent in saying that nobody should go outside, but then going on to advocate getting deliveries, which necessitates people going outside for you. Milk doesn't grow on grocery store shelves, and Amazon and supermarket packages don't grow on your doorsteps.


I'm not gonna pick apart the semantics, because we agree with each other. People should minimize their unprotected outside dealings with others in order to arrest viral spread as much as possible. That being said, having nobody go around outside is completely and utterly impossible under any circumstances. Therefore, one should daven that everyone should stay healthy, that the sick should be healed, that the mourners be comforted, and that he not be the cause of any harm to befall others. Realize, that even with all our efforts, that HKBH runs the world.
It's not my job or your job to worry about everyone. If someone has an essential job in a grocery store or delivering groceries or Amazon packages, that's their choice.

Saying you would rather die doing a mitzvah is absurd. The priority has to be to not die, not that if you die it should be doing a mitzvah.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #148 on: April 14, 2020, 06:34:52 AM »
I invite you all to this thread: https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=113857.0
Our name calling is Kool-Aid drinker, head buried in the sand, you need to get out more, you don't understand, bleeding heart liberal and the likes. No one dies or puts others in danger from our comments or actions. Having a place to vent in these trying times is a good thing.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #149 on: April 14, 2020, 07:00:23 AM »
יה'ר שיהא חלקי אם מתים בדרך לעשות מצוה

If I have to die from this virus, I daven it should be from doing a mitzvah and not going to the liquor store or home depot. I also daven that I don't give it to anyone else. My personal mortality I can come to terms with (I currently don't have any dependants), but the concept of causing another's death or debilitation I can't.
Just curious if your religion has a concept of Pikuach nefesh. Mine does.

Offline Yoel

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Offline Chapshnell

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #151 on: April 14, 2020, 10:36:17 AM »
It's not my job or your job to worry about everyone. If someone has an essential job in a grocery store or delivering groceries or Amazon packages, that's their choice.

Saying you would rather die doing a mitzvah is absurd. The priority has to be to not die, not that if you die it should be doing a mitzvah.

v'chai b'hem

Offline Dan

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #152 on: April 14, 2020, 10:40:46 AM »
v'chai b'hem
This basic concept of Judaism seems lost among too many.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline aygart

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #153 on: April 14, 2020, 11:24:28 AM »
יה'ר שיהא חלקי אם מתים בדרך לעשות מצוה

If I have to die from this virus, I daven it should be from doing a mitzvah and not going to the liquor store or home depot. I also daven that I don't give it to anyone else. My personal mortality I can come to terms with (I currently don't have any dependants), but the concept of causing another's death or debilitation I can't.
ואת דמכם לנפשותיכם אדרוש
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #154 on: April 14, 2020, 12:24:51 PM »


My personal mortality I can come to terms with (I currently don't have any dependants).

I'm not sure where to even begin with the whole comment, and perhaps I shouldn't. This part that you think makes you sound like a selfless martyr is the height of arrogance. Who do you think you are to "be ok with your own mortality"? G-d is your dependent. He wouldn't have created you otherwise.

Offline KSMH

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #155 on: April 14, 2020, 12:34:27 PM »
I know of a big posek [well recognized and respected among all poskim and crowds] in LKWD that had a Minyan outside [every one on their own porch] up until yesterday when a letter of many poskim in LKWD was published prohibiting so.  For now he has stopped his minyan. I dont know his reasoning for before and after , I will post if I find out.
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline aygart

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #156 on: April 14, 2020, 12:45:47 PM »
I know of a big posek [well recognized and respected among all poskim and crowds] in LKWD that had a Minyan outside [every one on their own porch] up until yesterday when a letter of many poskim in LKWD was published prohibiting so.  For now he has stopped his minyan. I dont know his reasoning for before and after , I will post if I find out.

There were some giving psakim on a case by case basis when it was able to be ensured that everyone kept 100% to guidelines. His presense probably help with that.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Vesko

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #157 on: April 14, 2020, 01:04:28 PM »
It's not my job or your job to worry about everyone. If someone has an essential job in a grocery store or delivering groceries or Amazon packages, that's their choice.

Saying you would rather die doing a mitzvah is absurd. The priority has to be to not die, not that if you die it should be doing a mitzvah.

Nothing wrong with being dependent on someone's (usually someone less wealthy than you) personal choices to do something that you need done that may result in them dying or transmitting a disease, as this is the way of the world, but citing your nobility of heart in not doing such a service when you are utilizing to someone else to do it for you is slightly tone deaf.

if
/if/
conjunction
1.
(introducing a conditional clause) on the condition or supposition that; in the event that.

You have come into contact with the word "if" before, I suppose? It's a relatively commonly used word in colloquial vernacular.

Just curious if your religion has a concept of Pikuach nefesh. Mine does.
Just curious if your religion has a concept of Talmud, which this was quoted from, or a G-d that runs the world, which mine does. Do you know what percentage of the fatalities in Italy were medical workers? Italy is not a third world country.
ואת דמכם לנפשותיכם אדרוש
את השחפת ואת הקדחת


I'm not sure where to even begin with the whole comment, and perhaps I shouldn't. This part that you think makes you sound like a selfless martyr is the height of arrogance. Who do you think you are to "be ok with your own mortality"? G-d is your dependent. He wouldn't have created you otherwise.


I take it you don't contemplate your mortality. You should. It's good for you. שוב יום אחד קודם מיתתך, ואין אתה יודע יום מיתתך. One should always hope for the best and plan for the worst in life. That is what life insurance is for.

Were Hashem to decide my time is up, whether I am crossing the street, at a beach, in a store, in a hospital, or in my living room, I hope it's in the midst of doing a mitzvah and not something useless. There's nothing necessarily wrong with watching Netflix on the treadmill, but I hope that's not what I die in midst of.

Obviously, one should make every effort to avoid dying, unless it is for something worth dying for, as defined by your Creator and delineated by the Poskim.

One who has nothing worth dying for has nothing worth living for.


Offline Dan

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #158 on: April 14, 2020, 01:08:12 PM »
Nothing wrong with being dependent on someone's (usually someone less wealthy than you) personal choices to do something that you need done that may result in them dying or transmitting a disease, as this is the way of the world, but citing your nobility of heart in not doing such a service when you are utilizing to someone else to do it for you is slightly tone deaf.

if
/if/
conjunction
1.
(introducing a conditional clause) on the condition or supposition that; in the event that.

You have come into contact with the word "if" before, I suppose? It's a relatively commonly used word in colloquial vernacular.
Just curious if your religion has a concept of Talmud, which this was quoted from, or a G-d that runs the world, which mine does. Do you know what percentage of the fatalities in Italy were medical workers? Italy is not a third world country.את השחפת ואת הקדחת

I take it you don't contemplate your mortality. You should. It's good for you. שוב יום אחד קודם מיתתך, ואין אתה יודע יום מיתתך. One should always hope for the best and plan for the worst in life. That is what life insurance is for.

Were Hashem to decide my time is up, whether I am crossing the street, at a beach, in a store, in a hospital, or in my living room, I hope it's in the midst of doing a mitzvah and not something useless. There's nothing necessarily wrong with watching Netflix on the treadmill, but I hope that's not what I die in midst of.

Obviously, one should make every effort to avoid dying, unless it is for something worth dying for, as defined by your Creator and delineated by the Poskim.

One who has nothing worth dying for has nothing worth living for.


And you're done. Thanks for stopping by and registering for an account yesterday!

Warning for others, feel free to debate, but personal attacks and condescension will earn suspensions and bans.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 01:11:16 PM by Dan »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline aygart

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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
« Reply #159 on: April 14, 2020, 01:09:48 PM »
Nothing wrong with being dependent on someone's (usually someone less wealthy than you) personal choices to do something that you need done that may result in them dying or transmitting a disease, as this is the way of the world, but citing your nobility of heart in not doing such a service when you are utilizing to someone else to do it for you is slightly tone deaf.

if
/if/
conjunction
1.
(introducing a conditional clause) on the condition or supposition that; in the event that.

You have come into contact with the word "if" before, I suppose? It's a relatively commonly used word in colloquial vernacular.
Just curious if your religion has a concept of Talmud, which this was quoted from, or a G-d that runs the world, which mine does. Do you know what percentage of the fatalities in Italy were medical workers? Italy is not a third world country.את השחפת ואת הקדחת

I take it you don't contemplate your mortality. You should. It's good for you. שוב יום אחד קודם מיתתך, ואין אתה יודע יום מיתתך. One should always hope for the best and plan for the worst in life. That is what life insurance is for.

Were Hashem to decide my time is up, whether I am crossing the street, at a beach, in a store, in a hospital, or in my living room, I hope it's in the midst of doing a mitzvah and not something useless. There's nothing necessarily wrong with watching Netflix on the treadmill, but I hope that's not what I die in midst of.

Obviously, one should make every effort to avoid dying, unless it is for something worth dying for, as defined by your Creator and delineated by the Poskim.

One who has nothing worth dying for has nothing worth living for.



I also hope it is not from arrogantly deciding that I know better than the gedolim and rabbonim.
Feelings don't care about your facts