Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim

[shaulyaakov]

Nothing wrong with being dependent on someone's (usually someone less wealthy than you) personal choices to do something that you need done that may result in them dying or transmitting a disease, as this is the way of the world, but citing your nobility of heart in not doing such a service when you are utilizing to someone else to do it for you is slightly tone deaf.

if
/if/
conjunction
1.
(introducing a conditional clause) on the condition or supposition that; in the event that.

You have come into contact with the word "if" before, I suppose? It's a relatively commonly used word in colloquial vernacular.
Just curious if your religion has a concept of Talmud, which this was quoted from, or a G-d that runs the world, which mine does. Do you know what percentage of the fatalities in Italy were medical workers? Italy is not a third world country.את השחפת ואת הקדחת

I take it you don't contemplate your mortality. You should. It's good for you. שוב יום אחד קודם מיתתך, ואין אתה יודע יום מיתתך. One should always hope for the best and plan for the worst in life. That is what life insurance is for.

Were Hashem to decide my time is up, whether I am crossing the street, at a beach, in a store, in a hospital, or in my living room, I hope it's in the midst of doing a mitzvah and not something useless. There's nothing necessarily wrong with watching Netflix on the treadmill, but I hope that's not what I die in midst of.

Obviously, one should make every effort to avoid dying, unless it is for something worth dying for, as defined by your Creator and delineated by the Poskim.

One who has nothing worth dying for has nothing worth living for.

Talmud quotes =/= Halacha Le'maaseh.

It's clear that if minyan poses a risk, it's assur.

[Yehuda57]

I contemplate my mortality every time I engage in one of these threads

[Lurker]

I contemplate my mortality every time I engage in one of these threads

A little bleach to the eyes never killed anyone...

[Yehuda57]

A little bleach to the eyes never killed anyone...

What about eyeballing vodka?

[shaulyaakov]

It's not my job or your job to worry about everyone. If someone has an essential job in a grocery store or delivering groceries or Amazon packages, that's their choice.

Saying you would rather die doing a mitzvah is absurd. The priority has to be to not die, not that if you die it should be doing a mitzvah.

I don't think one can claim a "high ground" by saying that delivery is better than going to stores unless one is high risk or quarantined.

Being the agent of someone else's risk doesn't seem better than assuming the risk onesself, unless you feel that a Stam delivery person is less of a risk than oneself.

[aygart]

I don't think one can claim a "high ground" by saying that delivery is better than going to stores unless one is high risk or quarantined.

Being the agent of someone else's risk doesn't seem better than assuming the risk onesself, unless you feel that a Stam delivery person is less of a risk than oneself.

A delivery person can drop items off contactless. They are at much less risk than a cashier at a store where you would go in person.

[Chapshnell]

Listen to the audio of Rabbi Forscheimer: https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/04/new-audio-message-from-lakewood-posek-rabbi-yaakov-forscheimer.html

Cant get clearer than this

[Dan]

I don't think one can claim a "high ground" by saying that delivery is better than going to stores unless one is high risk or quarantined.

Being the agent of someone else's risk doesn't seem better than assuming the risk onesself, unless you feel that a Stam delivery person is less of a risk than oneself.

1. Not that I feel the need to justify my actions for using delivery, but I am around someone who is considered high risk.
2. If stores only did deliveries (as some do) then by nature they would be safer as there would be fewer shoppers in numbers and variety. Fewer people will be exposed which means less spreading of the disease.

[CountValentine]

What about eyeballing vodka?

Someone is getting out to much!

[aygart]

Listen to the audio of Rabbi Forscheimer: https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/04/new-audio-message-from-lakewood-posek-rabbi-yaakov-forscheimer.html

Cant get clearer than this

"May fall into the halachos of a rodeif"

WOW!!

[Yehuda57]

Someone is getting out to much!

Lol, you're right. Back in quarantine I go.

[israshot]

Cross post.
Psak from Rav Braun, CH.

During Kinus Torah (over Zoom) Rabbi Braun of the Crown Heights Beis Din addressed the issue. He mentioned various arguments made, and said that the Beis Din unanimously decided to forbid all minyanim, indoors and outdoors, without mentioning any reasoning, so that no one could say that the reasoning isn't relevant to him. He did mention several arguments that can be made against making minyanim, but the bottom line is that (sofek) pikuach nefesh trumps everything and is a sufficient reason.

However, he did say that name calling is wrong. He ended by saying that if someone believes that he can make a minyan in a totally safe manner he should know that it is עליו ועל צווארו.

The audio

[Yehuda57]

And you're done. Thanks for stopping by and registering for an account yesterday!

Warning for others, feel free to debate, but personal attacks and condescension will earn suspensions and bans.

Wait, we're not allowed to condescend? Well, it's been nice knowing you folks. It's not like you peasants can appreciate my genius anyway

[CountValentine]

Wait, we're not allowed to condescend? Well, it's been nice knowing you folks. It's not like you peasants can appreciate my genius anyway

You can always tweet to the stable genius. 

[yelped]

Talmud quotes =/= Halacha Le'maaseh.

It's clear that if minyan poses a risk, it's assur.

It's much more than that. They guy is clearly lacking knowledge in basics including the Pesukim that others quoted.

[Joel]

So to discuss a different angle related to the c**p tornado that is this thread...

This minyan is somewhat visible through the trees from my deck, where I tend to daven, and it can normally be heard quite clearly.

I've decided not to answer amen when I hear them say kaddish and so on - I feel that this minyan is a case of 'בוצע ברך נאץ ה. Is this a valid halachic mehalech?

Asked my Dayan today he said that I do need to answer amen even its across the street and I don't approve of the minyan...

[yossig]

Asked my Dyan today he said that I do need to answer amen even its across the street and I don't approve of the minyan...

you might get banned here

[Dan]

you might get banned here

Nobody gets banned for posting a contrarian opinion.

[Yehuda57]

Nobody gets banned for posting a contrarian opinion.

Nuh uh

[Joel]

you might get banned here

DW will be thrilled! Lol 😆