POLL: Wedding expenses in the frum Community - BH for simchos? or out of hand?

[shaulyaakov]

That won’t help for the Yeshiva community, where the boys usually  don’t work. Unless your talking about the girls waiting longer, but I think you’ll have organizations like Libbi on your case

I think it's a problem in and of itself that such a high percentage of young couples can't afford basic living expenses once they get married.

[Jellybelly]

I think we have to do what’s done in the unemployment thread.
You have to say what community your from before you post.
Seems like each one is very different

[pbf]

That won’t help for the Yeshiva community, where the boys usually  don’t work. Unless your talking about the girls waiting longer, but I think you’ll have organizations like Libbi on your case

I am referring to the Yeshiva community. Let's stop trying to get the boys to marry younger and instead focus no the girls marrying a bit later.

There already is a large gap in maturity between the boys and girls. Getting the boys married even younger doesn't help.

Let the girls grow up, get a job, make some money.

[shapsam]

I am referring to the Yeshiva community. Let's stop trying to get the boys to marry younger and instead focus no the girls marrying a bit later.

There already is a large gap in maturity between the boys and girls. Getting the boys married even younger doesn't help.

Let the girls grow up, get a job, make some money.

Most girls already have a job and are making money when they get married, that's not the problem.

[pbf]

Most girls already have a job and are making money when they get married, that's not the problem.

Having a job at 20 doesn't help much, she still doesn't really have any savings.
She also still has an immature attitude that she has everything coming to her.

[Dan]

I think it's a problem in and of itself that such a high percentage of young couples can't afford basic living expenses once they get married.

Well, they can always sell the Italian furniture.

[David61]

I am referring to the Yeshiva community. Let's stop trying to get the boys to marry younger and instead focus no the girls marrying a bit later.

There already is a large gap in maturity between the boys and girls. Getting the boys married even younger doesn't help.

Let the girls grow up, get a job, make some money.

Won't the maturity gap still grow, with girls working longer and progressing further in their college studies/careers?

Maybe we need the boys to take on some sort of achrayus while still learning to develop more maturity, e.g. seed programs, summer counselors, pirchei, tutoring, learning with less learned balei batim, etc.

[pbf]

Won't the maturity gap still grow, with girls working longer and progressing further in their college studies/careers?

Maybe we need the boys to take on some sort of achrayus while still learning to develop more maturity, e.g. seed programs, summer counselors, pirchei, tutoring, learning with less learned balei batim, etc.

I don't see it making much of a difference

[mmgfarb]

I am referring to the Yeshiva community. Let's stop trying to get the boys to marry younger and instead focus no the girls marrying a bit later.

There already is a large gap in maturity between the boys and girls. Getting the boys married even younger doesn't help.

Let the girls grow up, get a job, make some money.

I'm sorry but this is laughable, you are clearly out of touch with how the system works these days. Go try telling girls that they should start waiting longer before they try to get married, see how well that goes for you. As girls get older they have an increasingly harder time getting suggestions and dates, I'm not saying that 18-19 yr old girls should all be trying to get married but telling girls to wait until they're older and more financially stable just won't work when by the time they get to that stage, most of the guys want to date girls younger than them. If you want to focus on changing something, start a movement to get guys to go out with girls around the same age as them instead of 2-3 yrs younger.

[pbf]

I'm sorry but this is laughable, you are clearly out of touch with how the system works these days. Go try telling girls that they should start waiting longer before they try to get married, see how well that goes for you. As girls get older they have an increasingly harder time getting suggestions and dates, I'm not saying that 18-19 yr old girls should all be trying to get married but telling girls to wait until they're older and more financially stable just won't work when by the time they get to that stage, most of the guys want to date girls younger than them. If you want to focus on changing something, start a movement to get guys to go out with girls around the same age as them instead of 2-3 yrs younger.

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, only one of us has been a girl in the shidduch system for the past too many years.

[mmgfarb]

I'm not sure why everyone in this thread is so obsessed with the cost of actual weddings. The problem here isn't the difference between $5k weddings and $10k weddings, I'd say that most people can afford to spend $5k per side, if both sides have a little more, do a $15k wedding and do $7.5k a side, not a big deal. I think it's pretty clear that the real problem here is all the other ridiculous things that parents are expected to shell out tens of thousands for. Cutting $5k out of the actual wedding night cost doesn't do that much to solve the problem if your entire cost after the whole affair is $50k-$100k.
As I said in another thread:

This is like putting a band-aid on a broken car window.

[pbf]

I'm not sure why everyone in this thread is so obsessed with the cost of actual weddings. The problem here isn't the difference between $5k weddings and $10k weddings, I'd say that most people can afford to spend $5k per side, if both sides have a little more, do a $15k wedding and do $7.5k a side, not a big deal. I think it's pretty clear that the real problem here is all the other ridiculous things that parents are expected to shell out tens of thousands for. Cutting $5k out of the actual wedding night cost doesn't do that much to solve the problem if your entire cost after the whole affair is $50k-$100k.
As I said in another thread:

Agree

[EliJelly]

I'm not sure why everyone in this thread is so obsessed with the cost of actual weddings. The problem here isn't the difference between $5k weddings and $10k weddings, I'd say that most people can afford to spend $5k per side, if both sides have a little more, do a $15k wedding and do $7.5k a side, not a big deal. I think it's pretty clear that the real problem here is all the other ridiculous things that parents are expected to shell out tens of thousands for. Cutting $5k out of the actual wedding night cost doesn't do that much to solve the problem if your entire cost after the whole affair is $50k-$100k.

Don't go down the rabbit hole with the wedding night should't total more than $5k. Even $10k- $5k per side is great. So many other pricier and less important wedding costs to cut away first.

[mmgfarb]

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, only one of us has been a girl in the shidduch system for the past too many years.

I'm confused, shouldn't you then agree with my sentiment? Wouldn't you rather if guys would be more willing to go out with you as opposed to girls way younger than you? I agree that we shouldn't be pushing all young guys to get married but trying to stop girls from going out when they're younger doesn't solve the problem, you need to make guys interested in dating older girls. As you've expressed, there are clearly advantages to a guy to marry an older, more mature, and financially stable girl, we need to make guys more interested in those advantages. As I'm sure you're, unfortunately, acutely aware, single girls in our community are often "valued" less than their married counterparts even if they are much younger than them. It's stupid and a shame that this is how our community thinks but unless that changes it's very hard to ask girls to live in that reality for longer than they have to, especially coupled with the fact that older girls often have a harder time dating than younger girls.

[pbf]

I'm confused, shouldn't you then agree with my sentiment? Wouldn't you rather if guys would be more willing to go out with you as opposed to girls way younger than you? I agree that we shouldn't be pushing all young guys to get married but trying to stop girls from going out when they're younger doesn't solve the problem, you need to make guys interested in dating older girls. As you've expressed, there are clearly advantages to a guy to marry an older, more mature, and financially stable girl, we need to make guys more interested in those advantages. As I'm sure you're, unfortunately, acutely aware, single girls in our community are often "valued" less than their married counterparts even if they are much younger than them. It's stupid and a shame that this is how our community thinks but unless that changes it's very hard to ask girls to live in that reality for longer than they have to, especially coupled with the fact that older girls often have a harder time dating than younger girls.

If it would be the norm for girls to only start dating at, say, 21 or 22, then that would be considered young. There would be no younger pot to chose from.
Personally, I had an older sister and only started dating at 22 and it was the best thing. In my mind, it wasn't even an option for me to date before then so there was zero pressure.

I also know that when my brother was in shidduchim, the super young girls were always passed over immediately. My mother just was not interested.

I know many people do not think this way, but it can become more accepted and standard if people work at it.

Yes, I'm acutely aware that single girls have less 'value' but it all depends how you look at it. I don't care what people think and in my workplace (frum environment) I am valued even more because I am not havng babies constantly and leaving because my kids are sick.

[Yehudaa]

I'm not sure why everyone in this thread is so obsessed with the cost of actual weddings. The problem here isn't the difference between $5k weddings and $10k weddings, I'd say that most people can afford to spend $5k per side, if both sides have a little more, do a $15k wedding and do $7.5k a side, not a big deal. I think it's pretty clear that the real problem here is all the other ridiculous things that parents are expected to shell out tens of thousands for. Cutting $5k out of the actual wedding night cost doesn't do that much to solve the problem if your entire cost after the whole affair is $50k-$100k.
As I said in another thread:

+1, as I said here.

[mmgfarb]

If it would be the norm for girls to only start dating at, say, 21 or 22, then that would be considered young. There would be no younger pot to chose from.
Personally, I had an older sister and only started dating at 22 and it was the best thing. In my mind, it wasn't even an option for me to date before then so there was zero pressure.

I also know that when my brother was in shidduchim, the super young girls were always passed over immediately. My mother just was not interested.

I know many people do not think this way, but it can become more accepted and standard if people work at it.

Yes, I'm acutely aware that single girls have less 'value' but it all depends how you look at it. I don't care what people think and in my workplace (frum environment) I am valued even more because I am not havng babies constantly and leaving because my kids are sick.

While I agree with your sentiment, I think you have to be realistic about how societies change values and opinions over time. A movement to get girls to delay dating by a couple of years just wouldn't work, only a minimal number of girls would do it who otherwise would have started dating already and the only outcome is that those girls potentially lose out.

[Sam Finkelstein]

I never got why parents are "expected" to cough up so much money for everything, not just weddings.

Let the kids earn it if they want it. There's a huge sense of entitlement out there.

[lubaby]

I never got why parents are "expected" to cough up so much money for everything, not just weddings.

Let the kids earn it if they want it. There's a huge sense of entitlement out there.

Like this?

I don’t know what it’s not getting more attention / movement for change.

In Lakewood I know many people get a $10-15k car for the couple, but this is already a different discussion about peoples expectations to support the couple, ranging from paying their rent to basically full financial support for 2-5 years, which is also pretty mainstream.

For parents to go into debt for it, of course its ridiculous. I happen to know someone that was already in debt that is supporting the couples 2 year Israel excursion because his daughter decided she wants to live in Israel.

[pbf]

I never got why parents are "expected" to cough up so much money for everything, not just weddings.

Let the kids earn it if they want it. There's a huge sense of entitlement out there.

+1

I've had friends go on last ditch spending binges while they're engaged, because 'might as well cash in on Tatty's money while I can'.
And this is without going into support or anything like that.

These parents are not wealthy in the slightest and probably go into debt to pay for their childrens' weddings.