POLL: Wedding expenses in the frum Community - BH for simchos? or out of hand?

[Dan]

Some who wants to make a cheap Chasuna in Israel can easily do it under $20,000 including everything.

You can do close to the same thing in the US.

[TimT]

I still can’t wrap my head around him making 600k annually, spending 300k on the wedding, & needing to borrow 175k. Something seriously wrong there.

Why isn’t there housing expenses ? They get free housing in EY ?

[whacked1]

I still can’t wrap my head around him making 600k annually, spending 300k on the wedding, & needing to borrow 175k. Something seriously wrong there.

Why isn’t there housing expenses ? They get free housing in EY ?

I'm assuming coming from their support which he wrote is 2k each side.

[jye]

Besides all of the other salient points about this made above, I can't get over the Rov's advice, to not let anything shter the simcha. Very good advice to be sure, but given how this person is describing how he spent money he did not have as he now feels a major burden to somehow pay for it all (not to mention creating pressure on others), do you think maybe the Rov might have mentioned that to him and advised him to tone it down?? (Obviously I don't know the whole story, and I am sure there were issues-shalom bayis or otherwise, or maybe the Rov just thought he wouldnt listen, but I just found it ironic that he's quoting his Rov's advice to basically not let the strain - financial or otherwise - affect the simcha, when more targeted advice would have seemed to be to not get into the mess in the first place.....)

IIRC one of the gedolim said several decades ago that 90% of the people who talk to him aren’t really asking, they are telling him and want his shtemple, not to listen to his eitzah so he responds in kind. The 10% who really want to be shoel eitzah and listen will truly get his advice.

[TimT]

regular basic expenses

Another thing that needs some serious looking into.

[jye]

Or about our tuition burden?

The number one complaint in the frum community is the crushing tuition burden in our community especially for large families. Apparently that’s not the real issue. They have no problem coming up with over 10k for chosson kallah trinkets and 50k to 100k and up for vort/wedding/shabbos sheva brachos/ clothing- every couple of years or so. Yes, some comes from tzedaka, but it amounts to the same issue: a question of communal and societal priorities.

[TimT]

I'm assuming coming from their support which he wrote is 2k each side.

4K per month for several years ? Training them in the gvir lifestyle early.

[Just A Jew]

It is a nice salary, sure. But it doesn't cover much more than regular basic expenses for a family of 10 or more.

Forget statistics for a minute,
How many frum families with children do you know who make 200k and are upper middle class?

Answer: (almost) zero

Our lives are a little more expensive, but some of that is our own doing. I live OOT, and less than 10% of the entire community makes over 150k. We're all doing fine. Nice shul, functioning school, everyone eats, everyone is dressed, and we've all got roofs over our heads. Our simchos are simple, our cars are used, maybe 4 people own a watch worth over 1k. Walking into the frum stores in NY/NJ, between clothing, silver, jewelry, and even the grocery stores, has most OOTers shaking their heads. What people have become accustomed to as "just getting by" is ridiculous.

(I don't mean to paint everyone with one broad brush. It's just that seeing how prevalent this culture is, it makes it hard to sympathize when people claim to struggle while making more than 95% of this country, which as a whole is one of the most affluent in the world. Seeing these wedding expenses doesn't help, either. )

[Dan]

Our lives are a little more expensive, but some of that is our own doing. I live OOT, and less than 10% of the entire community makes over 150k. We're all doing fine. Nice shul, functioning school, everyone eats, everyone is dressed, and we've all got roofs over our heads. Our simchos are simple, our cars are used, maybe 4 people own a watch worth over 1k. Walking into the frum stores in NY/NJ, between clothing, silver, jewelry, and even the grocery stores, has most OOTers shaking their heads. What people have become accustomed to as "just getting by" is ridiculous.

(I don't mean to paint everyone with one broad brush. It's just that seeing how prevalent this culture is, it makes it hard to sympathize when people claim to struggle while making more than 95% of this country, which as a whole is one of the most affluent in the world. Seeing these wedding expenses doesn't help, either. )

Yup, hard for OOTers to relate to this level of crazy.

[Dan]

The number one complaint in the frum community is the crushing tuition burden in our community especially for large families. Apparently that’s not the real issue. They have no problem coming up with over 10k for chosson kallah trinkets and 50k to 100k and up for vort/wedding/shabbos sheva brachos/ clothing- every couple of years or so. Yes, some comes from tzedaka, but it amounts to the same issue: a question of communal and societal priorities.

Agreed. Spending like this voids the tuition complaints.

[flyingace]

Our lives are a little more expensive, but some of that is our own doing. I live OOT, and less than 10% of the entire community makes over 150k. We're all doing fine. Nice shul, functioning school, everyone eats, everyone is dressed, and we've all got roofs over our heads. Our simchos are simple, our cars are used, maybe 4 people own a watch worth over 1k. Walking into the frum stores in NY/NJ, between clothing, silver, jewelry, and even the grocery stores, has most OOTers shaking their heads. What people have become accustomed to as "just getting by" is ridiculous.

(I don't mean to paint everyone with one broad brush. It's just that seeing how prevalent this culture is, it makes it hard to sympathize when people claim to struggle while making more than 95% of this country, which as a whole is one of the most affluent in the world. Seeing these wedding expenses doesn't help, either. )

Agree with the lifestyle points completely. Housing in the main areas is way more than out of town. What is the average family size in your community? So add on health insurance and tuition for those extra family members and $200,000 does not make you rich.
What is mind boggling about the article is that he doesn't see any problem spending half his income on a wedding and borrowing from others on top of that! I would venture to say this is a made up account.

[aygart]

4K per month for several years ? Training them in the gvir lifestyle early.

I can assure you that they were well trained long before the wedding.

[dovy2]

no offence to @Dan or dansdeals.. but a big part of the problem is the credit card and "deals" industry. Of course, proper education can help, but te push for "free", deals etc. is a big part our spending habits

[aygart]

no offence to @Dan or dansdeals.. but a big part of the problem is the credit card and "deals" industry. Of course, proper education can help, but te push for "free", deals etc. is a big part our spending habits

Meh

[etech0]

Yup, hard for OOTers to relate to this level of crazy.

Not only OOTers

[Ralphie]

no offence to @Dan or dansdeals.. but a big part of the problem is the credit card and "deals" industry. Of course, proper education can help, but te push for "free", deals etc. is a big part our spending habits

?

[Yehuda57]

no offence to @Dan or dansdeals.. but a big part of the problem is the credit card and "deals" industry. Of course, proper education can help, but te push for "free", deals etc. is a big part our spending habits

I'm well on record about the dangers of the "game", but the kind of excess being described here has nothing to do with it

Not only OOTers

Exactly. I haven't married off a kid yet, but this isn't remotely close to what anyone in my circles would do.

[Dawie]

If you're interested, would love to see the breakdown.  If it wasn't within the last year or so, you'll need to adjust the number for inflation.

I would love to see this too

[aygart]

Thinking the same thing
Maybe the income is very recent, I'm trying to figure out how there are no savings.

You think the wedding is the only place they have a spending issue?

[yelped]

I really think either this is totally made up or by the time it got to print, it was so chopped up and tweaked that it just doesn't add up, because there are so many contradictions in there.