POLL: Wedding expenses in the frum Community - BH for simchos? or out of hand?

[aygart]

The only way to cut expenses & make most people happy is that it should be the "norm" to have a simple wedding.
starts by enlightening the children

THe wedding itself is well below half the cost.

[Yehudaa]

THe wedding itself is well below half the cost.

Correct, that was exactly my point. The wedding is only half the problem.

[Kobe Bryant]

It does not need to be elaborate to be costly. Any time someone invites siblings and families you can have enough to make it either a lot of work and stress to do yourself or expensive. Yes you can make them small in sioze that only unmarrieds or couples come and cut it down somewhat, but even then it can be a lot of work for someone who just made a chasuna to do on their own and expensive to buy.

Correct, that was exactly my point. The wedding is only half the problem.

I agree that its not solely about the wedding night, but overall Shabbos Sheva Brochos doesn't seem to be the big issue here. 

[aygart]

Correct, that was exactly my point. The wedding is only half the problem.

Not even.

[aygart]

I agree that its not solely about the wedding night, but overall Shabbos Sheva Brochos doesn't seem to be the big issue here. 

Correct although it can end up reaching more than half the cost of a wedding even when it is not elaborate.

[Kobe Bryant]

Correct although it can end up reaching more than half the cost of a wedding even when it is not elaborate.

Disagree on this particular point, regardless would love to see your breakdown of 35k , as i believe it can be done for far less.
irrespective of the above , if one is BH wealthy , they could make a wedding as they please, i take issue with people who "have no savings" "are living paycheck to paycheck" etc. and are making weddings they cant afford,  it reflects how they go about their daily lives when it comes to being financially responsible.     

This topic is but a symptom of a much larger problem plaguing US society as a whole, and our community in particular.
It boggles my mind when i speak to young couples about starting a SIMCHA FUND , and their reaction is " we can always take a HELOC" ?!?!       

[aygart]

Disagree on this particular point,     

I am talking from experience on that part.

Can it be less? Yes. Significantly is subjective, but even 35k is very much the low end once you include shaitels, setting up the house, basic gifts, shabbos sheva brachos, gowns, clothes for the simcha, clothes for the kallah (including a vort dress). Have you gone through it?
I fully agree on your last point.

[Kobe Bryant]

I am talking from experience on that part.

Can it be less? Yes. Significantly is subjective, but even 35k is very much the low end once you include shaitels, setting up the house, basic gifts, shabbos sheva brachos, gowns, clothes for the simcha, clothes for the kallah (including a vort dress). Have you gone through it?
I fully agree on your last point.

yes.
" but even 35k is very much the low end" by what measuring stick? is the couple going to lack basic necessities?
(I know many a Kallah who spent $200 on a beautiful Vort dress).
will IMYH post a breakdown.

[Dawie]

Im sure the initiative is well intended, but it doesn't actually address the problem. 

I think that we are going about the wrong away, trying to make Takonos doesn't work outside of a few tight-knit sects of the Chasidic community. ( and the few i've seen are absurd)

For the most part those that can't afford it and are making lavish weddings , are the same people that drive an expensive lease while in debt or living paycheck to paycheck, while the neighbors who live below their means ( and possibly have a higher income) buy a 3 YO used car, and have hundreds of thousands of $ in their  401K, IRA and Retirement funds, and are making a nice simple wedding they can afford.

Here are some excerpts that make you wonder, how we've come to such a state of financial ignorance.
"Our family is solidly middle class, with everything that implies. we usually carry credit card debt from month to month"
spent $ 67,000

"And while the business is doing well,we still have some debt to pay off"
" we didn't have any money in savings when our daughter got engaged"
"Still, even if we can afford it, we intend to curb the spending next time"
spent $151,000

"we live from paycheck to paycheck,and i wasn't going above my means to conform to communal standards. and then i did."
spent $94,000

These high cost weddings are a symptom of an overall issue of not living within one's means.

The kicker from one of those (67k one) was "but my daughter deserves it... WTAF

reminds me of the Mishna
מַעֲשֶׂה בְּרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן בֶּן מַתְיָא שֶׁאָמַר לִבְנוֹ, צֵא שְׂכֹר לָנוּ פוֹעֲלִים. הָלַךְ וּפָסַק לָהֶם מְזוֹנוֹת. וּכְשֶׁבָּא אֵצֶל אָבִיו, אָמַר לוֹ, בְּנִי, אֲפִלּוּ אִם אַתָּה עוֹשֶׂה לָהֶם כִּסְעֻדַּת שְׁלֹמֹה בִשְׁעָתוֹ, לֹא יָצָאתָ יְדֵי חוֹבָתְךָ עִמָּהֶן, שֶׁהֵן בְּנֵי אַבְרָהָם יִצְחָק וְיַעֲקֹב

[aygart]

yes.
" but even 35k is very much the low end" by what measuring stick? is the couple going to lack basic necessities?
(I know many a Kallah who spent $200 on a beautiful Vort dress).
will IMYH post a breakdown.

I am sure that you can cut it down significantly even from there, but not everyone can bring girls around from gemach to gamach for weeks to get them gowns without it costing them more in their income than the benefit. Not every girl will be able to withstand the peer pressure and will feel very deprived getting a synthetic shaitel. A lot can be done by cutting some corners but that is not always practical even without being elaborate or showy. You can't expect every girl to be happy with low end walmart linen.

[Kobe Bryant]

I am sure that you can cut it down significantly even from there, but not everyone can bring girls around from gemach to gamach for weeks to get them gowns without it costing them more in their income than the benefit. Not every girl will be able to withstand the peer pressure and will feel very deprived getting a synthetic shaitel. A lot can be done by cutting some corners but that is not always practical even without being elaborate or showy. You can't expect every girl to be happy with low end walmart linen.

"Not every girl will be able to withstand the peer pressure and will feel very deprived getting a synthetic shaitel"
idk of any girl buying synthetic shaitels these days, the cost of a low end human hair shaitel is 1-2k.
the fact that there is peer pressure is not a carte blanche to spend more then one can afford.

[shwarmabob]

You can't expect every girl to be happy with low end walmart linen.

there are many options between "walmart linen" and "$6.5k on linens and towels"
If I told DW now many years after our chassunah to go and spend "$6.5k on linens and towels" she would take me to the doctor to get me checked out.
young couples don't have to start out as the kings of the material world. it's something to be earned...

[Kobe Bryant]

there are many options between "walmart linen" and "$6.5k on linens and towels"
If I told DW now many years after our chassunah to go and spend "$6.5k on linens and towels" she would take me to the doctor to get me checked out.
young couples don't have to start out as the kings of the material world. it's something to be earned...

As she should, my DW would do the same.

[EliJelly]

On topic.

[aygart]

"Not every girl will be able to withstand the peer pressure and will feel very deprived getting a synthetic shaitel"
idk of any girl buying synthetic shaitels these days, the cost of a low end human hair shaitel is 1-2k.
the fact that there is peer pressure is not a carte blanche to spend more then one can afford.

Agreed. I made a very basic off the cuff calculations of some costs but can be off on a bunch of stuff since I unfortunately went through my father's illness and petira during my daughter's engagement and somewhat lost track of some expenses. I reached 40,0000 very quickly.

 

wedding	12000
vort	$3,000
shaitels	4000
basic furniture	5000
kallah clothing	2000
shabbos sheva brachos	4000
gowns	3000
gifts	1000
Simcha clothing	1500
set up house	5000
	40500

[Shmulie]

there are many options between "walmart linen" and "$6.5k on linens and towels"
If I told DW now many years after our chassunah to go and spend "$6.5k on linens and towels" she would take me to the doctor to get me checked out.
young couples don't have to start out as the kings of the material world. it's something to be earned...

6.5k for linen and towels??? what are they made out of?

Agreed. I made a very basic off the cuff calculations of some costs but can be off on a bunch of stuff since I unfortunately went through my father's illness and petira during my daughter's engagement and somewhat lost track of some expenses. I reached 40,0000 very quickly.

basic furniture 5000
set up house 5000

what is the difference between nasic furniture and setup the house? total is 10k?

[aygart]

6.5k for linen and towels??? what are they made out of?

what is the difference between nasic furniture and setup the house? total is 10k?

Set up house is pot pans linen dishes utensils and the like. Yes it costs a lot of money to set up a new home. I think that is one of the low estimates.

[yelped]

[Yehudaa]

Agreed. I made a very basic off the cuff calculations of some costs but can be off on a bunch of stuff since I unfortunately went through my father's illness and petira during my daughter's engagement and somewhat lost track of some expenses. I reached 40,0000 very quickly.

 

wedding	12000
vort	$3,000
shaitels	4000
basic furniture	5000
kallah clothing	2000
shabbos sheva brachos	4000
gowns	3000
gifts	1000
Simcha clothing	1500
set up house	5000
	40500

Interesting. Can I ask how many people you had at the wedding? (for the meal)

If your expenses are a more realistic representation of what the average wedding expenses look like and only 12k was spent on the wedding itself, how much is this 250-person-wedding campaign really going to save people? If it cuts 20% off the 12k, that's only a 6% savings on the overall cost of marrying off a child!

I'm not saying that I have a better solution, just wondering how much of a savings people will see from reducing the guest count.

[Kobe Bryant]

Interesting. Can I ask how many people you had at the wedding? (for the meal)

If your expenses are a more realistic representation of what the average wedding expenses look like and only 12k was spent on the wedding itself, how much is this 250-person-wedding campaign really going to save people? If it cuts 20% off the 12k, that's only a 6% savings on the overall cost of marrying off a child!

I'm not saying that I have a better solution, just wondering how much of a savings people will see from reducing the guest count.

Guest count is not the issue.