Topic Wiki

Initiative to lower the standards:   https://simchainitiative.org/

Mishpacha Article link:                     https://mishpacha.com/at-all-costs/
                                                     https://mishpacha.com/at-all-costs-the-conversation-continues-2/

Jewish Pr. Interview W/R Reisman   https://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/interviews-and-profiles/over-1300-sign-pledge-to-hold-simpler-weddings-an-interview-with-rav-yisroel-reisman-rosh-yeshiva-of-torah-vodaath/2020/05/13/

Some interesting articles covering the guidelines from similar efforts 20 years ago

https://agudah.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/JO2002-V35-N06.pdf  page 10 article by Prof. Aaron Twerski
https://agudah.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/JO2006-V39-N041.pdf page 43 article by R Aryeh Zev Ginzberg
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/25/us/religion-journal-a-big-wedding-with-a-smaller-bill.html
« Last edited by David61 on May 28, 2020, 06:29:23 PM »

Poll

Wedding expenses in the frum community

Thank G-d for simchas
12 (5.8%)
This has gotten out of hand and a remedy is needed
157 (75.5%)
It's a problem but has always been this way and we'll manage as we have till now
39 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 208

Author Topic: POLL: Wedding expenses in the frum Community - BH for simchos? or out of hand?  (Read 130384 times)

Offline jew

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So, what's the actual hashkafic difference for why Chabad gives the diamond ring after the marriage?

I'm assuming it's not for economic reasons, though I'm all for that. The peer pressure to have excess everything is absurd.
The Rebbe was very against giving a ring beforehand

Offline jew

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Is there only one rabbi all use?
Chabad  seems to have ppl from very different walks of life
There are many .
He is the classical and most "old school" ?
(Yes I went to him too :) )

Offline Dan

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Preaching to the choir, but we are 30 years too late....
Luckily, it takes 40 years for things to come to Cleveland.
I hear sushi is coming soon ;)
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Offline aygart

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When I got married in standard Lakewood yeshiva circles (not heimish) it was ring, bracelet, + yichud room gift(necklace or earrings). Yes many added more, but that was the minimum.
Still is
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Diamond Ring is given much earlier

By the chosson’s parents?
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline EliJelly

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The Rebbe was very against giving a ring beforehand

even when given

By the chosson’s parents?
?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2023, 11:54:57 PM by EliJelly »

Offline Dan

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even
?
Never heard of any Chabad Kallah getting any kind of ring before marriage.
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Offline yfr bachur

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Some numbers seem obsene to me.
Why in god's name does a middle class kalla need 10G in gifts???
(as an aside - what in the world does prioritizing a sick relative have to do with overspending on a bracelet - is it some sort of new segula ;D)
True, I got married in EY, but under 6 years ago. but jewelry wise, My kalla got a CZ ring, candlesticks, and a necklace in the yichud room (which was nice enough to get admired by someone whose name is on buildings across the world). She also got a high-end bosch or Kenwood (which is the engagement gift here) Technically we have the money for machzorim in an envelope...
I doubt my parents spent more than $4000. Their annual income is also at least five times the example families.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 07:48:04 AM by yfr bachur »

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Some numbers seem obsene to me.
Why in god's name does a middle class kalla need 10G in gifts???
(as an aside - what in the world does prioritizing a sick relative have to do with overspending on a bracelet - is it some sort of new segula ;D)
True, I got married in EY, but under 6 years ago. but jewelry wise, My kalla got a CZ ring, candlesticks, and a necklace in the yichud room (which was nice enough to get admired by someone whose name is on buildings across the world). She also got a high-end bosch or Kenwood (which is the engagement gift here) Technically we have the money for machzorim in an envelope...
I doubt my parents spent more than $4000. Their annual income is also at least five times the example families.
The standards for jewelry are way lower in Eretz Yisroel. A married friend who recently made a wedding outside Yerushalayim said none of the married women in their community own real jewelry aside from their engagement ring.
The bracelet at the vort is a relatively recent addition. Would love to get rid of it, but a plain gold something isn't that cheap anymore, either.

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Why in god's name does a middle class person/family need an upper class car/house/wedding/Kiddush/you name it

This is a general problem in our frum society, where there isn't really much of a class heiarchery based on wealth, but that has the unfortunate side effect of creating peer pressure on middle to low class earners from the big spenders. No real eitza except to just work on yourself to ignore peer pressure which is, admittedly, very difficult.

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Some numbers seem obsene to me.
Why in god's name does a middle class kalla need 10G in gifts???
(as an aside - what in the world does prioritizing a sick relative have to do with overspending on a bracelet - is it some sort of new segula ;D)
True, I got married in EY, but under 6 years ago. but jewelry wise, My kalla got a CZ ring, candlesticks, and a necklace in the yichud room (which was nice enough to get admired by someone whose name is on buildings across the world). She also got a high-end bosch or Kenwood (which is the engagement gift here) Technically we have the money for machzorim in an envelope...
I doubt my parents spent more than $4000. Their annual income is also at least five times the example families.
Who said anything about middle class? Upthread we had families collecting tzedaka and gemach funds to pay for weddings including 12k of kallah bling- and they were proud of their resourcefulness. IIRC it was one of the first Shared Simchas articles.

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I'm making a charity campaign for a Vachet Nachet, :) >:( it's not normal where we got to.

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I'm making a charity campaign for a Vachet Nachet, :) >:( it's not normal where we got to.
Also not a thing in Chabad other than candy for the kids that come to say Shma, BH.
If nobody will call out the absurdities then they will continue to grow. Judaism is expensive enough as it is.
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Also not a thing in litvishe circles
Ftfm

Offline tzifanya54

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Judaism is expensive enough as it is.
This is key. People think well it’s costing my already xxxxxx may as well add a few hundred for this or that. Jewish life is insanely expensive (in the “in town” communities even more so); why the heck would we add additional expenses? IE vort and lichaim, each being an event, Bar mitzvah dinner and Shabbos each being an event. Shabbos sheva brachos being a huge affair, same for Aufruf etc…. Just no reason for it….

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(as an aside - what in the world does prioritizing a sick relative have to do with overspending on a bracelet - is it some sort of new segula ;D)

My father was niftar during my oldest daughter's engagement and that cause more to be spent on some items because convenience became a higher priority and because we lacked the brain space to analyze each expense as much. That said, I also felt it strange regarding a bracelet which is one of the simplest items to keep to a number in Lakewood. You just go to whichever jewelry place you are familiar with and they will give you something within your budget.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Jewish life is insanely expensive (in the “in town” communities even more so);

And here I thought it was the opposite. In OOT communities, basic Jewish life costs a fortune, while in-town, the basics are cheaper, but there are more of these peripherals.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline pbf

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When I got married in standard Lakewood yeshiva circles (not heimish) it was ring, bracelet, + yichud room gift(necklace or earrings). Yes many added more, but that was the minimum.
This is still the case. Some people also do a watch, but that's an extra.
Most people give bracelet at the lchaim or vort, ring sometime during the engagement, and a necklace in the yichud room. I already had a nice necklace so my chosson gave me earrings in the yichud room.
For the boy, it's generally a watch at the lchaim/vort. I did cufflinks as well, but I don't think that's a must (there's more like chosson Shas, tallis, tallis bag etc but I'm talking only about jewelry here)

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Iirc it was about $500 total 10 yrs ago. $1800 is way too high
i think we just paid 600 and 500=1100

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And here I thought it was the opposite. In OOT communities, basic Jewish life costs a fortune, while in-town, the basics are cheaper, but there are more of these peripherals.
Which basics cost a fortune OOT? C"Y Milk costs $0.50 more?
Certainly less than all the in-town peer pressure. I can make a Shabbos kiddush for a B"M next year and nobody will think the less for it.
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