Author Topic: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!  (Read 1132 times)

Offline nsastamps

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Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« on: April 19, 2020, 12:54:12 PM »
Imagine someone trustworthy promised you five million dollars and said its gonna be in your bank account tomorrow. Tomorrow then came and the money did not. He then tells you, “tomorrow”. And tomorrow comes and again no money. This keeps happening day after day. I would assume that after just a few days you would pretty much loathe this person, let alone ever trust him again.

I remember when I was just a child and year Y2k- 2000 was approaching with so many Rabbis practically promising Mashiach will be coming that year.

Then it was 9/11…

Then it was the Iraq war…

Then it was Obama… Somehow gematria of Gog

Then it was Trumps dyed orange hair somehow meant Edom (which is actually red)…

Then it was (still is) the Israeli government deadlock…

Now it’s the epidemic…

The list is much longer and I’m sure everyone can add to it. And this time again, it’s very prominent Rabbonim (and some ddfr’s too ;)) telling us that It “has to be this Nissan”…All simanim are pointing towards the geula”:… with gematrias and different calculations to prove it. Isn’t the time of the Geula supposed to be hidden from us?!
Yes, I understand people are looking for hope, but it’s hope at the expense of faith.
During world events a few years back, a prominent Rabbi said that this must be the time of the geula. When that didn’t happen, I actually approached him respectfully and asked him about his prediction to which he answered that it was a time that was “mesugal” for Mashiach to come. I understand the concept of eis mesugal, but shouldn’t people say clearly - that it’s a eis mesugal - next time they feel Mashiach might be coming? Instead of practically guaranteeing that Mashiach is coming next week and getting peoples hopes sky high, and then dashing it.

People very often quote Maran HaRav Chaim Kanievsky Shlit”a saying that Mashiach will be coming at a certain time, and when you actually dig deeper, all he said was that he HOPES Mashiach will be there by then.

Yes, we say Ani mamin – I believe with complete faith in the coming of the Masiach, it doesn’t say He WILL come this or that specific time.

And I sincerely hope Mashiach will be here today!

What am I missing?

Offline aygart

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2020, 12:57:33 PM »
Imagine someone trustworthy promised you five million dollars and said its gonna be in your bank account tomorrow. Tomorrow then came and the money did not. He then tells you, “tomorrow”. And tomorrow comes and again no money. This keeps happening day after day. I would assume that after just a few days you would pretty much loathe this person, let alone ever trust him again.

I remember when I was just a child and year Y2k- 2000 was approaching with so many Rabbis practically promising Mashiach will be coming that year.

Then it was 9/11…

Then it was the Iraq war…

Then it was Obama… Somehow gematria of Gog

Then it was Trumps dyed orange hair somehow meant Edom (which is actually red)…

Then it was (still is) the Israeli government deadlock…

Now it’s the epidemic…

The list is much longer and I’m sure everyone can add to it. And this time again, it’s very prominent Rabbonim (and some ddfr’s too ;)) telling us that It “has to be this Nissan”…All simanim are pointing towards the geula”:… with gematrias and different calculations to prove it. Isn’t the time of the Geula supposed to be hidden from us?!
Yes, I understand people are looking for hope, but it’s hope at the expense of faith.
During world events a few years back, a prominent Rabbi said that this must be the time of the geula. When that didn’t happen, I actually approached him respectfully and asked him about his prediction to which he answered that it was a time that was “mesugal” for Mashiach to come. I understand the concept of eis mesugal, but shouldn’t people say clearly - that it’s a eis mesugal - next time they feel Mashiach might be coming? Instead of practically guaranteeing that Mashiach is coming next week and getting peoples hopes sky high, and then dashing it.

People very often quote Maran HaRav Chaim Kanievsky Shlit”a saying that Mashiach will be coming at a certain time, and when you actually dig deeper, all he said was that he HOPES Mashiach will be there by then.

Yes, we say Ani mamin – I believe with complete faith in the coming of the Masiach, it doesn’t say He WILL come this or that specific time.

What am I missing?
.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2020, 12:59:55 PM »
"
Fair warning - Any PMs sent in response to forum posts are fair game for ridicule in public.

Offline Davidthebest

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2020, 01:11:16 PM »
Imagine someone trustworthy promised you five million dollars and said its gonna be in your bank account tomorrow. Tomorrow then came and the money did not. He then tells you, “tomorrow”. And tomorrow comes and again no money. This keeps happening day after day. I would assume that after just a few days you would pretty much loathe this person, let alone ever trust him again.

I remember when I was just a child and year Y2k- 2000 was approaching with so many Rabbis practically promising Mashiach will be coming that year.

Then it was 9/11…

Then it was the Iraq war…

Then it was Obama… Somehow gematria of Gog

Then it was Trumps dyed orange hair somehow meant Edom (which is actually red)…

Then it was (still is) the Israeli government deadlock…

Now it’s the epidemic…

The list is much longer and I’m sure everyone can add to it. And this time again, it’s very prominent Rabbonim (and some ddfr’s too ;)) telling us that It “has to be this Nissan”…All simanim are pointing towards the geula”:… with gematrias and different calculations to prove it. Isn’t the time of the Geula supposed to be hidden from us?!
Yes, I understand people are looking for hope, but it’s hope at the expense of faith.
During world events a few years back, a prominent Rabbi said that this must be the time of the geula. When that didn’t happen, I actually approached him respectfully and asked him about his prediction to which he answered that it was a time that was “mesugal” for Mashiach to come. I understand the concept of eis mesugal, but shouldn’t people say clearly - that it’s a eis mesugal - next time they feel Mashiach might be coming? Instead of practically guaranteeing that Mashiach is coming next week and getting peoples hopes sky high, and then dashing it.

People very often quote Maran HaRav Chaim Kanievsky Shlit”a saying that Mashiach will be coming at a certain time, and when you actually dig deeper, all he said was that he HOPES Mashiach will be there by then.

Yes, we say Ani mamin – I believe with complete faith in the coming of the Masiach, it doesn’t say He WILL come this or that specific time.

And I sincerely hope Mashiach will be here today!

What am I missing?
Very vell expressed my thought since ever

Offline nsastamps

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2020, 01:30:23 PM »

Offline knowitall

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2020, 01:32:35 PM »
On the topic of R Chaim Kanievsky Shlita- If I see a video of him saying something I’ll believe it.
Otherwise, any paper supposedly signed by him, or “he’s very pained by this”, or he promises a yeshua to anybody who donates X amount, goes straight to trash.

Offline Davidthebest

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2020, 01:34:40 PM »
On the topic of R Chaim Kanievsky Shlita- If I see a video of him saying something I’ll believe it.
Otherwise, any paper supposedly signed by him, or “he’s very pained by this”, or he promises a yeshua to anybody who donates X amount, goes straight to trash.
Unfortunately a video is the same garbage too.
People around him are playing around with him,  and they don't let him off untill he says what they want him to say. And he is aware of that, so he just tell them what they want they hear, then shows them the door.

Offline fineguy

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2020, 01:49:10 PM »
Imagine someone trustworthy promised you five million dollars and said its gonna be in your bank account tomorrow. Tomorrow then came and the money did not. He then tells you, “tomorrow”. And tomorrow comes and again no money. This keeps happening day after day. I would assume that after just a few days you would pretty much loathe this person, let alone ever trust him again.

I remember when I was just a child and year Y2k- 2000 was approaching with so many Rabbis practically promising Mashiach will be coming that year.

Then it was 9/11…

Then it was the Iraq war…

Then it was Obama… Somehow gematria of Gog

Then it was Trumps dyed orange hair somehow meant Edom (which is actually red)…

Then it was (still is) the Israeli government deadlock…

Now it’s the epidemic…

The list is much longer and I’m sure everyone can add to it. And this time again, it’s very prominent Rabbonim (and some ddfr’s too ;)) telling us that It “has to be this Nissan”…All simanim are pointing towards the geula”:… with gematrias and different calculations to prove it. Isn’t the time of the Geula supposed to be hidden from us?!
Yes, I understand people are looking for hope, but it’s hope at the expense of faith.
During world events a few years back, a prominent Rabbi said that this must be the time of the geula. When that didn’t happen, I actually approached him respectfully and asked him about his prediction to which he answered that it was a time that was “mesugal” for Mashiach to come. I understand the concept of eis mesugal, but shouldn’t people say clearly - that it’s a eis mesugal - next time they feel Mashiach might be coming? Instead of practically guaranteeing that Mashiach is coming next week and getting peoples hopes sky high, and then dashing it.

People very often quote Maran HaRav Chaim Kanievsky Shlit”a saying that Mashiach will be coming at a certain time, and when you actually dig deeper, all he said was that he HOPES Mashiach will be there by then.

Yes, we say Ani mamin – I believe with complete faith in the coming of the Masiach, it doesn’t say He WILL come this or that specific time.

And I sincerely hope Mashiach will be here today!

What am I missing?
Nice point. People should stress "mesugal". I do think however when people say Moshaich is coming they mean it feels like that based on events. That's how normal people understand it, although clarity always helps.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2020, 02:15:58 PM »
Unfortunately a video is the same garbage too.
People around him are playing around with him,  and they don't let him off untill he says what they want him to say. And he is aware of that, so he just tell them what they want they hear, then shows them the door.
All it takes is a tip for THE einikel. You know the joke, someone offered the einikel 100 bucks if he walks down Rechov Chazon ish without pants, he smiled and said, "I'm not doing this for $100, but I can definitely do it with Zeidy for $50". For all these videos released of him saying so and so, utter בזיון התורה.

Offline SamCan

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2020, 02:33:10 PM »
People are gravitating to the Moshiach conversation for two reasons. First it is an escape from the suffering going on around us, so people are don't need to work on understanding how pain and suffering work from a Torah perspective. Second they also don't need to dig deeper in themselves to see why Hashem sent us out of class (shul) and punished us into the corner.

Schools don't teach these connects clearly (Moshiach, pain and suffering, and how a person should dig deeper into themselves, most rabbanoim try to find communal averios)

Offline aygart

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2020, 02:34:53 PM »
It is almost as if there has never before been an epidemic within the Jewish community.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline yelped

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2020, 02:40:02 PM »
It is almost as if there has never before been an epidemic within the Jewish community.
Who even knows history? Let alone learn from history?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2020, 02:49:28 PM »
What am I missing?
That's an easy one.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline incendia

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2020, 03:10:47 PM »
Unfortunately a video is the same garbage too.
People around him are playing around with him,  and they don't let him off untill he says what they want him to say. And he is aware of that, so he just tell them what they want they hear, then shows them the door.

real leadership

Offline yitzf

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Re: Can people PLEASE stop predicting when Mashiach is coming?!
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2020, 03:11:10 PM »
https://mishpacha.com/labor-pains/ by Eytan Kobre

Quote
The upheavals of ikvesa d’Meshicha and the disorienting dislocations of chevlei Mashiach are certainly addressed in authentic Torah sources. What, then, could possibly be amiss in linking them to events in our world?

The issue, however, isn’t whether such concepts are true. It is instead whether focusing on them might be not just irrelevant but perhaps even spiritually inimical. In Tishrei 5734, as the Yom Kippur War raged, Rav Eliezer Menachem Shach stood before the aron kodesh of Yeshivas Ponevezh and told an overflowing beis medrash: The above-mentioned Rambam writes that when in troubled times, people aren’t moved to cry out in repentance to Hashem, but instead say “this is the minhag ha’olam, it’s the way the world works,” they are cruelly inviting further troubles.

Attributing one’s troubles to living in the era of Mashiach, the Rosh Yeshivah explained, is a way of saying “this is the minhag ha’olam,” that this is just the way things are in the days preceding yemos haMashiach. That kind of thinking is an example of what the Torah refers to as halichah b’keri, treating events as random, since if events at large are merely a function of this being Mashiach’s tzeiten, then it has nothing to do with me and there’s no Heavenly wake-up call to which I need respond.