Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison

[S209]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/architect-of-sweden-coronavirus-strategy-admits-too-many-died-anders-tegnell

I don’t know the exact numbers but Sweden is still recording thousands of new daily cases, Norway isn’t and I suspect Denmark isn’t either. So it isn’t over yet.

Here are the numbers from yesterday:

Sweden: 2,214 new cases 74  deaths (450 DPM)
Denmark: 37 new cases 0 deaths (100 DPM)
Norway: 22 new cases 0 deaths (44 DPM)
Finland: 24 new cases 1 death (58 DPM)

[CountValentine]

Here are the numbers from yesterday:

Sweden: 2,214 new cases 74  deaths (450 DPM)
Denmark: 37 new cases 0 deaths (100 DPM)
Norway: 22 new cases 0 deaths (44 DPM)
Finland: 24 new cases 1 death (58 DPM)

At the beginning I wasn't sure what the picture was going to end up looking like. Now I am pretty confident. 

[AsherO]

At the beginning I wasn't sure what the picture was going to end up looking like. Now I am pretty confident. 

Sweden isn’t done yet. Let’s see how long before things fizzle out there.

[S209]

Sweden isn’t done yet. Let’s see how long before things fizzle out there.

Done? They’re not even on a strong downward trend yet

[AsherO]

Nothing new in this article, but it’s a concise summary of Sweden’s situation:

https://elemental.medium.com/its-not-looking-good-in-sweden-right-now-624e7fe0a1ed

[S209]

Here are the numbers from yesterday:

Sweden: 2,214 new cases 74  deaths (450 DPM)
Denmark: 37 new cases 0 deaths (100 DPM)
Norway: 22 new cases 0 deaths (44 DPM)
Finland: 24 new cases 1 death (58 DPM)

Update from yesterday:
Sweden: 1,239 new cases 102 deaths (499 DPM)
Denmark: 44 new cases 0 deaths (103 DPM)
Norway: 32 new cases 1 death (45 DPM)
Finland: 5 new cases 0 deaths (59 DPM)

By the way, Sweden has conducted the fewest tests per capita of the 4.

Denmark, Finland, and Norway have all reopened their borders to allow travel between the Nordic countries. Only Sweden has been left out. Can anyone truly say Sweden’s approach has worked?

[yuneeq]

Can anyone truly say Sweden’s approach has worked?

Even Anders Tegnell can't.

[AsherO]

Even Anders Tegnell can't.

Have they adjusted their approach once they realized this? Or did they decide it was too late?

[yzj]

Update from yesterday:
Sweden: 1,239 new cases 102 deaths (499 DPM)
Denmark: 44 new cases 0 deaths (103 DPM)
Norway: 32 new cases 1 death (45 DPM)
Finland: 5 new cases 0 deaths (59 DPM)

By the way, Sweden has conducted the fewest tests per capita of the 4.

Denmark, Finland, and Norway have all reopened their borders to allow travel between the Nordic countries. Only Sweden has been left out. Can anyone truly say Sweden’s approach has worked?

Probably has more to do with the fact that the doctors in Sweden were killing the elderly patients, particularly in nursing homes, wholesale, ordering nurses to give the patients morphine and sedatives and no treatment, not even oxygen, which quickly dispatched them to the next world.  The doctors allowed almost no nursing home patients into hospitals and ICU’s, which had plenty of capacity, leaving them to die with no attempt to treat them instead.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/coronavirus-is-taking-a-high-toll-on-swedens-elderly-families-blame-the-government-11592479430

[AsherO]

Probably has more to do with the fact that the doctors in Sweden were killing the elderly patients, particularly in nursing homes, wholesale, ordering nurses to give the patients morphine and sedatives and no treatment, not even oxygen, which quickly dispatched them to the next world.  The doctors allowed almost no nursing home patients into hospitals and ICU’s, which had plenty of capacity, leaving them to die with no attempt to treat them instead.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/coronavirus-is-taking-a-high-toll-on-swedens-elderly-families-blame-the-government-11592479430

Doesn’t add up. There were 102 deaths on June 16th, not early on. Last I checked, it’s COVID itself that’s contagious, not death from COVID. Early deaths of seniors wouldn’t explain deaths so many months later.

[yzj]

Doesn’t add up. There were 102 deaths on June 16th, not early on. Last I checked, it’s COVID itself that’s contagious, not death from COVID. Early deaths of seniors wouldn’t explain deaths so many months later.

You’d have to look back a week or two to see if they started providing medical treatment at that point.

[AsherO]

You’d have to look back a week or two to see if they started providing medical treatment at that point.

Well, what are the demographics of the recent deaths?

[S209]

Probably has more to do with the fact that the doctors in Sweden were killing the elderly patients, particularly in nursing homes, wholesale, ordering nurses to give the patients morphine and sedatives and no treatment, not even oxygen, which quickly dispatched them to the next world.  The doctors allowed almost no nursing home patients into hospitals and ICU’s, which had plenty of capacity, leaving them to die with no attempt to treat them instead.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/coronavirus-is-taking-a-high-toll-on-swedens-elderly-families-blame-the-government-11592479430

It’s fairly common these days for people to blame places that let too many die on their medical system and not on their failure to contain the virus. Why is it that only Sweden had issues treating their patients but Denmark did just fine? I‘m pretty sure we know what major policy difference they had.. You’d need to show empirical evidence that the  standard of care was lower in Sweden than Denmark for me to take you seriously. And of course the standard was going to be somewhat lower in a country that’s completely overrun with massive spread.

As @CountValentine says, you’re running out of pretzels.

[Lurker]

It’s fairly common these days for people to blame places that let too many die on their medical system and not on their failure to contain the virus. Why is it that only Sweden had issues treating their patients but Denmark did just fine? I‘m pretty sure we know what major policy difference they had.. You’d need to show empirical evidence that the  standard of care was lower in Sweden than Denmark for me to take you seriously. And of course the standard was going to be somewhat lower in a country that’s completely overrun with massive spread.

As @CountValentine says, you’re running out of pretzels.

Sweden's entire approach of putting the country's economic well-being before any individual's health does fit well with the policy to let the old people die and not waste resources on them. I'm sure it contributed to higher numbers overall for Sweden. But the numbers don't lie. 50% of Sweden's deaths are from old age homes, and they would still have more than twice the DPM of the next Nordic country if you took away those deaths. And that's without taking into account the other country's old age home deaths.

It's pretty clear that this cannot be blamed on a controversial old age home policy.

[S209]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2404-8

[PlatinumGuy]

An interesting question would be the long term impacts on the economy.

I am willing to bet Sweden will end up being hit harder, which disproves the entire argument against lockdown in the first place.

[S209]

Denmark, Finland, and Norway have all reopened their borders to allow travel between the Nordic countries. Only Sweden has been left out.

[Yard sale]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/why-some-countries-suffer-more-from-coronavirus-israeli-prof-blames-care-homes/amp/

https://voxeu.org/article/long-term-care-facilities-risk-factor-death-covid-19

[S209]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/why-some-countries-suffer-more-from-coronavirus-israeli-prof-blames-care-homes/amp/

https://voxeu.org/article/long-term-care-facilities-risk-factor-death-covid-19

So if I’m reading correctly, Denmark and Sweden have nearly identical numbers in nursing homes, and the only difference has been their overall lockdown strategy?

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

[Yard sale]

So if I’m reading correctly, Denmark and Sweden have nearly identical numbers in nursing homes, and the only difference has been their overall lockdown strategy?

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

By that login what went right in Slovakia and really wrong in Denmark given even more identical nursing home numbers?