Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison

[avromie7]

I'm just gonna interrupt here to point out that this tweet is showing only the last 6 weeks of data. Not particularly instructive.

That's irrelevant, as long as @PlatinumGuy can misconstrue it that if not for the grace of government we'd all be dead.

[aygart]

Sweden didn't need to impose restrictions when they're citizens stayed at home without the restrictions...

Anyhow, Sweden cases are near an all time peak again, but we're still at the point in the curve we're people are saying 'but there are no deaths'. Give it a few more weeks and they'll be singing a different tune. The Asian countries are the only ones that handled this right.

Let's weld those doors shut

[avromie7]

It dramatically lowered contacts which inevtiably lowers infection. It worked just like every other lockdown around the world worked.

So we have a very comparable location without a lockdown with a better result, but because you "know" lockdowns work, we now have proof that the lockdown worked.

Just as an example about how terribly the lockdown is working, we had an afruf in our shul in Lakewood, for a family that lives in the red zone in brooklyn. I have no problem with it and am happy our shul was able to help them avoid the lockdown, but if you think it was effective, I have news for you.

[iluv2travel]

But the fact of the matter is the Covid wave appears to have subsided in BP & Monsey. Was there a better way to do it? Maybe. But it worked.

The fact that it subsided had zero to do with restrictions, it just took its natural course.

I'm not going to get into an argument about what was or wasn't open and if there are or aren't weddings etc. in Brooklyn and Monsey but suffice it to say, the current "lockdown" was/is not even close to the lockdown from March to May/June. והמבין יבין.

[PlatinumGuy]

That's irrelevant, as long as @PlatinumGuy can misconstrue it that if not for the grace of government we'd all be dead.

Or we should learn from the Swedish and conduct ourselves responsibly even without government oversight.

Let's weld those doors shut

China was brutal but plenty of democratic countries reached similar success without such extreme measures.

[PlatinumGuy]

So we have a very comparable location without a lockdown with a better result

How does something else working better indicate lockdown does not work?

[avromie7]

How does something else working better indicate lockdown does not work?

I'm far from convinced either method "worked", the only proof you have is based on your conjecture as seen here

It dramatically lowered contacts which inevtiably lowers infection. It worked just like every other lockdown around the world worked.

[avromie7]

I'm amazed at the pretzel @PlatinumGuy twists himself into to "prove" that lockdowns work.

[Lurker]

I'm far from convinced either method "worked", the only proof you have is based on your conjecture as seen here

You're not convinced of a lot of things. Trump takes Covid more seriously than you do.

[PlatinumGuy]

I'm amazed at the pretzel @PlatinumGuy twists himself into to "prove" that lockdowns work.

Not sure what you’re talking about. There is not a single lockdown anywhere in the world that didn’t help lower the case count.

[avromie7]

Not sure what you’re talking about. There is not a single lockdown anywhere in the world that didn’t help lower the case count.

correlation =/= causation.

[iluv2travel]

So we have a very comparable location without a lockdown with a better result, but because you "know" lockdowns work, we now have proof that the lockdown worked.

Just as an example about how terribly the lockdown is working, we had an afruf in our shul in Lakewood, for a family that lives in the red zone in brooklyn. I have no problem with it and am happy our shul was able to help them avoid the lockdown, but if you think it was effective, I have news for you.

Had an aufruf in one of the largest shuls in Brooklyn. Was stuffed to the hilt. Obviously zero SD possible. Maybe 1 single person wore a mask. I know of many other shuls that had the same (its wedding season after all and no, they were not canceled in light of the "lockdown")

And still the numbers came down.

[avromie7]

You're not convinced of a lot of things. Trump takes Covid more seriously than you do.

So find me proof that it worked, not correlation and conjecture.

[PlatinumGuy]

correlation =/= causation.

Right. So nearly every country in the world instituted a lockdown, case count always went down, we understand exactly the mechanism in which it worked, yet there is no evidence and I’m the one twisted into a pretzel.

[Lurker]

So find me proof that it worked, not correlation and conjecture.

We've been through this before. It is impossible to prove that restrictions work. If they work, infections don't happen. I can't prove why something didn't happen. The only thing we have is strong correlation and conjecture.

[iluv2travel]

You're not convinced of a lot of things. Trump takes Covid more seriously than you do.

Saying that lockdowns don't necessarily work doesn't mean you don't take COVID seriously. I still wear masks daily, hand wash, and SD even though I don't agree with the lockdown.

[PlatinumGuy]

So find me proof that it worked, not correlation and conjecture.

Btw food doesn’t make people fat. The ‘logic’ of the body storing energy as fat is a fake news media scam attempting to take away your freedom to eat, and the fact that people who eat more are fatter is just correlation & conjecture

[avromie7]

Right. So nearly every country in the world instituted a lockdown, case count always went down, we understand exactly the mechanism in which it worked, yet there is no evidence and I’m the one twisted into a pretzel.

Case count goes down without a lockdown!!! But that doesnt matter to you, because your rather government micromanagement in the name of safety.

[iluv2travel]

Right. So nearly every country in the world instituted a lockdown, case count always went down, we understand exactly the mechanism in which it worked, yet there is no evidence and I’m the one twisted into a pretzel.

Sweden didn't lock down and their cases had come down. Now it went back up. This seems to be the nature of this virus that it comes in spurts but obviously this is just my theory and I can't prove it.

There are US States that previously had spikes in the summer and didn't implement draconian lockdowns (just less severe restrictions) and the numbers came down anyway. Now they're going back up. Even in NYS overall its ticking up.

[Lurker]

Saying that lockdowns don't necessarily work doesn't mean you don't take COVID seriously. I still wear masks daily, hand wash, and SD even though I don't agree with the lockdown.

That's why I didn't write that to you    I've been arguing with @avromie7 for many, many months now. Trump really does take Covid more seriously than he does.

As for lockdowns, they are not the answer. However, they do have a place and they do serve a purpose. Within that place and purpose, they are effective. What you saw in NY just now was not an effective use of a lockdown.