Author Topic: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison  (Read 20057 times)

Online Euclid

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #540 on: November 04, 2020, 03:17:24 PM »
https://www.thelocal.dk/20201104/denmark-to-cull-millions-of-minks-over-mutated-coronavirus

Presumably, Sweden will be giving all its citizens a pet mink. 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 03:27:47 PM by Euclid »

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #541 on: November 11, 2020, 03:16:07 PM »
?s=21
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #542 on: November 16, 2020, 11:39:37 PM »
?s=21
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

Offline S209

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #543 on: November 17, 2020, 01:51:02 PM »
Sweden didn't need to impose restrictions when they're citizens stayed at home without the restrictions...

Anyhow, Sweden cases are near an all time peak again, but we're still at the point in the curve we're people are saying 'but there are no deaths'. Give it a few more weeks and they'll be singing a different tune. The Asian countries are the only ones that handled this right.
And now we’re there

?s=24

@Yard sale @Afrages6
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #544 on: November 17, 2020, 02:25:44 PM »
And now we’re there

@Yard sale @Afrages6
One's Sweden, the other Switzerland.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #545 on: November 17, 2020, 02:27:10 PM »
And now we’re there

@Yard sale @Afrages6
Actually per this study there were few “covid deaths” in Sweden during the first wave either. It was almost all displaced mortality.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20201116/Study-compares-deaths-in-Sweden-and-Norway-before-and-after-COVID-pandemic.aspx
 They were certainly wrong about herd immunity but the strategy makes sense nonetheless. Keep things open until there is a risk of overwhelming the system at which point you dial things back, avoiding the extreme economic and psychological toll (and likely health and mortality in the long term due to the neglect of preventive health) of long shutdowns. Most of Europe suffered through severe shutdowns only to face another wave anyway, one where the citizenry is fatigued and unwilling to comply.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #546 on: November 17, 2020, 02:35:24 PM »
One's Sweden, the other Switzerland.
Ah yes, good point ;D
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #547 on: November 17, 2020, 02:49:37 PM »
Actually per this study there were few “covid deaths” in Sweden during the first wave either. It was almost all displaced mortality.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20201116/Study-compares-deaths-in-Sweden-and-Norway-before-and-after-COVID-pandemic.aspx
The non peer reviewed study you quoted is a cherry picked joke, did you read it?

Here is all cause excess deaths in Sweden vs. Norway as compared to all of the previous 5 years. See if you can spot Sweden.



They were certainly wrong about herd immunity but the strategy makes sense nonetheless. Keep things open until there is a risk of overwhelming the system at which point you dial things back, avoiding the extreme economic and psychological toll (and likely health and mortality in the long term due to the neglect of preventive health) of long shutdowns. Most of Europe suffered through severe shutdowns only to face another wave anyway, one where the citizenry is fatigued and unwilling to comply.
As we’ve been through ad nauseam, there is no evidence that Denmark (or Norway) suffered more severe damage to their economies, nor were their lockdowns particularly long or harsh. Schools reopened in Denmark in April. Your only saving grace until now has been the claim that Sweden would avoid the second wave that Denmark would suffer. Are you changing your tune?


If so, then this debate is settled. Denmark wins, hands down.
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #548 on: November 17, 2020, 04:09:48 PM »
The non peer reviewed study you quoted is a cherry picked joke, did you read it?

Here is all cause excess deaths in Sweden vs. Norway as compared to all of the previous 5 years. See if you can spot Sweden.


As we’ve been through ad nauseam, there is no evidence that Denmark (or Norway) suffered more severe damage to their economies, nor were their lockdowns particularly long or harsh. Schools reopened in Denmark in April. Your only saving grace until now has been the claim that Sweden would avoid the second wave that Denmark would suffer. Are you changing your tune?


If so, then this debate is settled. Denmark wins, hands down.
You realize the mortality chart shows a whole lot of weeks of below normal mortality countering the spike in March/ April? The way things are heading the gap is actually closing.

https://emanuelkarlsten.se/number-of-deaths-in-sweden-during-the-pandemic-compared-to-previous-years-mortality

Now is not the time to draw conclusions any more than  those prematurely calling Sweden geniuses when Denmark started spiking. A couple of years down the road there will be a multitude of studies looking at long term excess mortality, the long term psychological toll, the economical fallout, the impact of neglecting preventative screenings and medical exams, and a host of other factors. That is the time to draw conclusions about which path was the better one.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 04:35:01 PM by Yard sale »

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #549 on: November 17, 2020, 04:56:19 PM »
As we’ve been through ad nauseam
This goes in the long term effects of Covid thread.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #550 on: November 17, 2020, 04:56:29 PM »

A couple of years down the road there will be a multitude of studies looking at long term excess mortality, the long term psychological toll, the economical fallout, the impact of neglecting preventative screenings and medical exams, and a host of other factors.
Also the long term effects of Covid itself.

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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

Offline S209

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #552 on: November 18, 2020, 07:02:24 PM »
You realize the mortality chart shows a whole lot of weeks of below normal mortality countering the spike in March/ April? The way things are heading the gap is actually closing.

https://emanuelkarlsten.se/number-of-deaths-in-sweden-during-the-pandemic-compared-to-previous-years-mortality

Now is not the time to draw conclusions any more than those prematurely calling Sweden geniuses when Denmark started spiking. A couple of years down the road there will be a multitude of studies looking at long-term excess mortality, the long-term psychological toll, the economical fallout, the impact of neglecting preventative screenings and medical exams, and a host of other factors. That is the time to draw conclusions about which path was the better one.
I think now is a perfectly good time to assess some of the now proven falsehoods that were supporting Sweden's approach.

No difference in the number of deaths? False.
Will prevent a second wave? False.
Avoid economic damage? False.

Now, you can try to find another narrative to confirm your prior biases towards this approach but one thing is certain- the theories posited in support have thus far all been proven wrong.

Even the government of Sweden now acknowledges their path was wrong.
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #553 on: November 18, 2020, 11:12:29 PM »
I think now is a perfectly good time to assess some of the now proven falsehoods that were supporting Sweden's approach.

No difference in the number of deaths? False.
Will prevent a second wave? False.
Avoid economic damage? False.

Now, you can try to find another narrative to confirm your prior biases towards this approach but one thing is certain- the theories posited in support have thus far all been proven wrong.

Even the government of Sweden now acknowledges their path was wrong.


Now is not the time to draw conclusions any more than  those prematurely calling Sweden geniuses when Denmark started spiking. A couple of years down the road there will be a multitude of studies looking at long term excess mortality, the long term psychological toll, the economical fallout, the impact of neglecting preventative screenings and medical exams, and a host of other factors. That is the time to draw conclusions about which path was the better one.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #554 on: November 20, 2020, 02:41:31 AM »

Now is not the time to draw conclusions any more than  those prematurely calling Sweden geniuses when Denmark started spiking. A couple of years down the road there will be a multitude of studies looking at long term excess mortality, the long term psychological toll, the economical fallout, the impact of neglecting preventative screenings and medical exams, and a host of other factors. That is the time to draw conclusions about which path was the better one.
Sounds like a nice big word salad that’s trying to escape the inescapable: Sweden screwed up big time. It’s been obvious from the start.  The only thing that’s recently changed is that a big defense was your assumption that Sweden would avoid the second wave of Denmark. Now that that rug’s been pulled out, it’s time to move on to displaced mortality?

Don’t forget, as little as a few weeks ago you were still trying to point to a second wave in Denmark as evidence of Sweden’s superiority.

Very similar to many of the previous narratives.

“COVID is dangerous. Be careful.”
“No it isn’t! It’s the flu! Nobody is going to die, any more than swine flu.”
*100K deaths later*
“The large number of COVID deaths show it was dangerous.”
“No they don’t! It was the hospitals! Either way, hydroxichloroquine is a total cure! Now the deaths are going to disappear.”
*100K deaths later*
“The deaths are fake!
“What about hydroxichloquine?”
“What’s hydroxichloroquine?”
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