Author Topic: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison  (Read 15047 times)

Offline Lurker

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #90 on: April 22, 2020, 02:25:07 PM »
The issue I see here is some people don't realize that every day that the country is shut down has serious repercussions on peoples lives and the economy. Anyone saying let's just wait it out for a few more months just to be safe is seriously underestimating the repercussions.

Not underestimating it at all. What about the flip side? We open everything up. Exposure spikes. Infection rates spike. We put our essential workers at much greater risk, threatening our core infrastructure. We put our best and our brightest, our innovators, our health care workers, our leaders of commerce and education, all at much greater risk, threatening our future. All because Bob may lose his house?
Please wear a mask.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #91 on: April 22, 2020, 02:27:14 PM »
All because Bob may lose his house?
You make valid points but they are lost with statements like this.  ::)
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #92 on: April 22, 2020, 02:30:18 PM »
You make valid points but they are lost with statements like this.  ::)

You're right, a gross exaggeration. My point was people are protesting because they're struggling. They need to pay their bills. I sympathize, because I'm in the same boat. I'm living it. But we need to think outside of our personal struggles. We bounced back from economic struggles before. Replacing people is a little bit harder.
Please wear a mask.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #93 on: April 22, 2020, 02:40:38 PM »
You're right, a gross exaggeration. My point was people are protesting because they're struggling. They need to pay their bills. I sympathize, because I'm in the same boat. I'm living it. But we need to think outside of our personal struggles. We bounced back from economic struggles before. Replacing people is a little bit harder.
We bounced back from the great depression but how many starved to death? I am not equating the two but showing economics does cause death.
The economics of this will directly cause lives to be lost. We need experts to give us their predictions on this also.
Does one life lost equal 10 lives ruined, 100 or 1000? Not a question I really want to think about or could even answer.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #94 on: April 22, 2020, 02:50:53 PM »
We bounced back from the great depression but how many starved to death? I am not equating the two but showing economics does cause death.
The economics of this will directly cause lives to be lost. We need experts to give us their predictions on this also.
Does one life lost equal 10 lives ruined, 100 or 1000? Not a question I really want to think about or could even answer.
Correct, there are terrible economic consequences to both millions getting sick and dying, and to millions being locked down.

The main difference is real, tangible deaths in front of us. (Relatively) very few people will actually starve to death or commit suicide as a direct result of the economic downturn. Those who think otherwise should look into total deaths by suicide, and increases corresponding to economic disasters.
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #95 on: April 22, 2020, 02:55:49 PM »
Correct, there are terrible economic consequences to both millions getting sick and dying, and to millions being locked down.

The main difference is real, tangible deaths in front of us. (Relatively) very few people will actually starve to death or commit suicide as a direct result of the economic downturn. Those who think otherwise should look into total deaths by suicide, and increases corresponding to economic disasters.
We have no figures on how this economic recession or maybe depression will be in lives lost and those lives ruined. Until we have that info how do we make an informed decision?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #96 on: April 22, 2020, 03:05:46 PM »
We have no figures on how this economic recession or maybe depression will be in lives lost and those lives ruined. Until we have that info how do we make an informed decision?

We do have numbers on deaths and causes from the Grerat Depression including suicides.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #97 on: April 22, 2020, 03:10:44 PM »
We have no figures on how this economic recession or maybe depression will be in lives lost and those lives ruined. Until we have that info how do we make an informed decision?
As with everything else, using the data we do have available. We can’t be held responsible for that which would have been impossible to predict, only that which we should have foreseen based on available evidence.

We won’t know the full extent of the economic destruction with AND without lockdown, ever. This isn’t a “Choose your own adventure” book. This is life. We choose the path that appears best and don’t get to redo our decisions.

In life, we use evidence to make decisions.
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #98 on: April 22, 2020, 03:13:11 PM »
In life, we use evidence to make decisions.
LOL
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #99 on: April 22, 2020, 03:15:18 PM »
We do have numbers on deaths and causes from the Grerat Depression including suicides.
Well...this is interesting
Quote from: https://www.pnas.org/content/106/41/17290
Population health did not decline and indeed generally improved during the 4 years of the Great Depression, 1930–1933, with mortality decreasing for almost all ages, and life expectancy increasing by several years in males, females, whites, and nonwhites. For most age groups, mortality tended to peak during years of strong economic expansion (such as 1923, 1926, 1929, and 1936–1937). In contrast, the recessions of 1921, 1930–1933, and 1938 coincided with declines in mortality and gains in life expectancy. The only exception was suicide mortality which increased during the Great Depression, but accounted for less than 2% of deaths
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #100 on: April 22, 2020, 03:17:29 PM »
Well...this is interesting

Exactly my point.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #101 on: April 22, 2020, 03:19:01 PM »
We bounced back from the great depression but how many starved to death? I am not equating the two but showing economics does cause death.
The economics of this will directly cause lives to be lost. We need experts to give us their predictions on this also.
Does one life lost equal 10 lives ruined, 100 or 1000? Not a question I really want to think about or could even answer.

Does one life lost only equal one life lost? I know you look at the charity thread, and I know you cry when you read the stories. How many more orphans can we handle? How many teachers can we lose? How many community leaders, pillars of charity, wisdom, advocacy, and business can we lose? How do we quantify the lives ruined? It's not a question you want to think about or answer, and neither do I. I definitely don't want some math geek to come up with an equation in his bunker.

This is what I believe. A life ruined can be repaired, but a life lost is lost forever. Judaism teaches that life is paramount, superseding everything in importance short of G-d and His Glory Himself. That is how I would like to approach this crises. Prioritize life today, and work towards solving the issues we know we'll face in the future.
Please wear a mask.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #102 on: April 22, 2020, 03:20:29 PM »
Well...this is interesting
Very interesting. I didn’t look into that and it seems counterintuitive at first glance but the point remains that pointing at vague “mental health deaths” and “suicide rates” isn’t equivalent to looking at actual deaths before our eyes. Real, tangible people who are no more. And very statistically significant.

Besides, there would be a terrible unquantifiable economic and mental toll should we allow this pandemic to murder the millions of people it would unchecked anyway. May as well keep them alive and see what the consequences are then.
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #103 on: April 22, 2020, 03:24:52 PM »
Very interesting. I didn’t look into that and it seems counterintuitive at first glance but the point remains that pointing at vague “mental health deaths” and “suicide rates” isn’t equivalent to looking at actual deaths before our eyes. Real, tangible people who are no more. And very statistically significant.

Besides, there would be a terrible unquantifiable economic and mental toll should we allow this pandemic to murder the millions of people it would unchecked anyway. May as well keep them alive and see what the consequences are then.

Even those did not go up by tremendous amounts.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #104 on: April 22, 2020, 03:25:20 PM »
Correct, there are terrible economic consequences to both millions getting sick and dying, and to millions being locked down.

The main difference is real, tangible deaths in front of us. (Relatively) very few people will actually starve to death or commit suicide as a direct result of the economic downturn. Those who think otherwise should look into total deaths by suicide, and increases corresponding to economic disasters.

Starve to death no. But suicide yes. Studies show that suicide rates shot up during the Great Depression resulting 23,000 deaths in the US. Studies show similar though less pronounced trends during smaller downturn. Other causes of death did not jump dramatically during the Great Depression.