Author Topic: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison  (Read 71702 times)

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #400 on: August 12, 2020, 01:04:49 PM »
To be fair, there are other aspects to consider besides economics and deaths.
True but besides physical and economic damage there isn't much left.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline yaakov35

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #401 on: August 12, 2020, 01:07:34 PM »
Okay, so now that we have different places giving conflicting conclusions, which one is correct? Are they both based on pre-concieved notions and biases? One of them? How do we iron this out? Anecdotally I am seeing here that the people pushing either side of this fit in perfectly with their preconcieved notions. That doesn't make it true.
I think the article that said Sweden was hit just as bad was referring to Q1, and they expected it to be worse Q2 which it wasn't.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #402 on: August 13, 2020, 12:47:40 PM »
I think the article that said Sweden was hit just as bad was referring to Q1, and they expected it to be worse Q2 which it wasn't.
This would make sense, the economic impact in Q1 was mostly because of voluntary shutdown, as time goes on it's mostly mandated shutdown doing the damage.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #403 on: August 13, 2020, 03:46:02 PM »
I think the article that said Sweden was hit just as bad was referring to Q1, and they expected it to be worse Q2 which it wasn't.

The exact opposite actually
"Sweden’s laissez faire approach does appear to have minimized the economic damage compared with its neighbors in the first three months of the year, according to an assessment by the International Monetary Fund."

This would make sense, the economic impact in Q1 was mostly because of voluntary shutdown, as time goes on it's mostly mandated shutdown doing the damage.

This makes no sense to me. Q1 would have the least impact on Sweden compared to others, as only March could possibly impact the economy, and they pretty much stayed open compared to other countries. Q2 Norway and Denmark reopened while Sweden remained sideways.

More from the article - this isn't some random prediction by an outsider, this is literally each country's central bank full year forecast:

"Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5% this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent. The unemployment rate jumped to 9 percent in May from 7.1 percent in March. “The overall damage to the economy means the recovery will be protracted, with unemployment remaining elevated,” Oxford Economics concluded in a recent research note. This is more or less how damage caused by the pandemic has played out in Denmark, where the central bank expects that the economy will shrink 4.1% this year, and where joblessness has edged up to 5.6 percent in May from 4.1 percent in March.
....
Norway’s central bank predicts that its mainland economy — excluding the turbulent oil and gas sector — will contract by 3.9% this year."

Visibly Jewish

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #404 on: August 13, 2020, 04:05:39 PM »
The exact opposite actually
"Sweden’s laissez faire approach does appear to have minimized the economic damage compared with its neighbors in the first three months of the year, according to an assessment by the International Monetary Fund."

This makes no sense to me. Q1 would have the least impact on Sweden compared to others, as only March could possibly impact the economy, and they pretty much stayed open compared to other countries. Q2 Norway and Denmark reopened while Sweden remained sideways.

More from the article - this isn't some random prediction by an outsider, this is literally each country's central bank full year forecast:

"Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5% this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent. The unemployment rate jumped to 9 percent in May from 7.1 percent in March. “The overall damage to the economy means the recovery will be protracted, with unemployment remaining elevated,” Oxford Economics concluded in a recent research note. This is more or less how damage caused by the pandemic has played out in Denmark, where the central bank expects that the economy will shrink 4.1% this year, and where joblessness has edged up to 5.6 percent in May from 4.1 percent in March.
....
Norway’s central bank predicts that its mainland economy — excluding the turbulent oil and gas sector — will contract by 3.9% this year."
When in q2 did they open? They weren't fully open on 4/1. As we've seen here in the US people didn't wait for the government to tell them to stay home and people didnt wait for the government to tell them it's safe to go out. People did what they felt is best for them. As time goes on the gap between what people want to do and what governments are telling them to do is growing.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #407 on: August 20, 2020, 11:31:51 AM »
How does this compare to the rest of the world?

No clue. I would have put it in interesting articles, but figured it would be of interest here.
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #408 on: August 31, 2020, 07:04:58 PM »

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #411 on: September 01, 2020, 09:30:49 PM »
https://www.wsj.com/articles/sweden-shouldnt-be-americas-pandemic-model-11598822005
Quote
About 40% of hospitalizations in Sunbelt states in the last week of June were in people ages 18 to 49

How dare he say that? He must be misleading if that doesn’t line up with my preconceptions.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline ari3

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #413 on: September 02, 2020, 09:39:37 AM »
I find it ironic that Bloomberg runs an article praising Sweden's response and WSJ runs one criticizing it
The WSJ piece quoted was an opinion by Scott Gottlieb.

And if it makes you feel better, here is a follow up article from Bloomberg retracting that piece.

Honestly, it shouldn’t be surprising when two supposedly objective newspapers run scientific observations or quote others who do. Yet unfortunately you’re right, it was an anomaly.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #414 on: September 02, 2020, 05:06:11 PM »
The WSJ piece quoted was an opinion by Scott Gottlieb.

And if it makes you feel better, here is a follow up article from Bloomberg retracting that piece.

Honestly, it shouldn’t be surprising when two supposedly objective newspapers run scientific observations or quote others who do. Yet unfortunately you’re right, it was an anomaly.
Don’t worry, here’s today’s WSJ commentary:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-failed-experiment-of-covid-lockdowns-11599000890?mod=mhp

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« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 03:12:37 AM by Yard sale »

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #416 on: September 06, 2020, 09:36:42 AM »
And now there are some calls in Israel to adopt the Swedish model:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.highlight-israel-physicians-scientists-warn-against-coronavirus-lockdown-call-to-adopt-swedish-model-1.9131812

“A lockdown does not stop the pandemic, it merely slows its spread slightly and temporarily,” the letter’s signatories write. “When the restrictions are lifted, the virus continues its spread, and this after the country’s citizens have been weakened emotionally, economically and above all in terms of their health. A lockdown does not prevent deaths. On the contrary, it extends the period of time during which populations at risk are exposed to the virus ... thus paradoxically causing excess mortality“

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #417 on: September 06, 2020, 05:29:26 PM »
That would be incredibly demoralizing if after all of the economic and human suffering during the lockdown they end up having to go to the Swedish model in the end. Hopefully they get a handle on it over Yom Tov.

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #418 on: September 08, 2020, 03:00:22 AM »
I don't know if there's any really clear answers.

And you think the idiots who are saying that everybody should go out and get it and we'll have herd immunity were any more accurate ?

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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
« Reply #419 on: September 09, 2020, 03:38:20 PM »
Denmark recently hit its highest daily numbers since April.