Author Topic: Long Term Effects of COVID-19  (Read 6683 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2020, 11:40:59 AM »
Interesting that it's marked enough for you to notice.
I attribute short temperedness on the internet to quarantine.  Not enough purposeful things to do.
Very noticeable since March.
Quarantine and anxiety for sure. Covid side effect, unclear.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline biobook

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2020, 11:57:53 AM »
So the lingering symptoms reported include
  • Fatigue, weakness, tiredness, no stamina
  • Respiratory, shortness of breath, decreased SaO2, decreased lung capacity
  • Neurological, chronic pain, mood changes- edgy, irritable; vision problems; sensitivity to smells
Not yet reported but possible we'll see them in future
  • Chronic fatigue syndrome
  • Long term lung damage

The question is how common are these?
Dr. Izbicki from Shaare Zedek says they affect about 50% of patients.  How did he reach that number? We don't know, because he only publicized a preliminary press release.  He's director of the Pulmonary Institute, so he might be only seeing patients with more severe symptoms.  In fact, the story includes his phone number for recovered covid patients to sign up for his study, so we shouldn't expect that 50% will be his final conclusion.  https://www.jpost.com/health-science/50-percent-of-covid-19-patients-suffer-from-weakness-distress-after-recovery-633072

On the other hand, some here suggested it's closer to 0%, that few if any of their acquaintances have lingering symptoms. 

We could get a quick look at this if DDFers ask acquaintances whether they have ANY lingering symptoms, and just post the numbers here, as I spoke to ____ people who recovered from covid and ___ still have lingering symptoms.


Here's why I think it's important:

When covid first appeared, the consequence we feared was death, and therefore we accepted isolation.
Now that young people know the chance of death is <1%, they are less careful about avoiding infection.
But it's still important for them to be careful, to avoid infecting those especially vulnerable, and to avoid the need for further shutdowns.
An emphasis on the __% chance of developing lingering and even debilitating side effects might encourage them to take more precautions to avoid infection.

This might sound silly, to expect that "not being able to work out" would be more of a deterrent than "chance of dying", but I vaguely remember something like this from an advertising campaign against smoking.  Young people were shown ads that targeted different harms of smoking, and their responses were something like this:
  • You'll get emphysema! What do I care? I'll be old then.
  • You'll get cancer! Maybe in 30 years.  So what?
  • You'll get heart disease! Yeah, doesn't everyone?
  • You'll get droopy, wrinkled skin!  Aaaargh! I'll be ugly?! Help me quit!
So hearing "You'll be too tired to dance" might motivate more young people to try to avoid infection. 

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2020, 08:58:49 PM »
So hearing "You'll be too tired to dance" might motivate more young people to try to avoid infection.

What would motivate someone who had mild symptoms and no lingering effect to avoid reinfection?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline etech0

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2020, 09:45:39 PM »
Could irritability be due to reduced oxygen due to mask wearing? Just wondering.
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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2020, 09:52:13 PM »
Could irritability be due to reduced oxygen due to mask wearing? Just wondering.
Could be due to many things, but there wouldn’t be a pattern of people who had moderate cases of COVID
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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2020, 09:54:29 PM »
Could be due to many things, but there wouldn’t be a pattern of people who had moderate cases of COVID
right
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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2020, 08:03:53 AM »
So the lingering symptoms reported include
  • Fatigue, weakness, tiredness, no stamina
  • Respiratory, shortness of breath, decreased SaO2, decreased lung capacity
  • Neurological, chronic pain, mood changes- edgy, irritable; vision problems; sensitivity to smells
Not yet reported but possible we'll see them in future
  • Chronic fatigue syndrome
  • Long term lung damage

The question is how common are these?
Dr. Izbicki from Shaare Zedek says they affect about 50% of patients.  How did he reach that number? We don't know, because he only publicized a preliminary press release.  He's director of the Pulmonary Institute, so he might be only seeing patients with more severe symptoms.  In fact, the story includes his phone number for recovered covid patients to sign up for his study, so we shouldn't expect that 50% will be his final conclusion.  https://www.jpost.com/health-science/50-percent-of-covid-19-patients-suffer-from-weakness-distress-after-recovery-633072

On the other hand, some here suggested it's closer to 0%, that few if any of their acquaintances have lingering symptoms. 

We could get a quick look at this if DDFers ask acquaintances whether they have ANY lingering symptoms, and just post the numbers here, as I spoke to ____ people who recovered from covid and ___ still have lingering symptoms.


Here's why I think it's important:

When covid first appeared, the consequence we feared was death, and therefore we accepted isolation.
Now that young people know the chance of death is <1%, they are less careful about avoiding infection.
But it's still important for them to be careful, to avoid infecting those especially vulnerable, and to avoid the need for further shutdowns.
An emphasis on the __% chance of developing lingering and even debilitating side effects might encourage them to take more precautions to avoid infection.

This might sound silly, to expect that "not being able to work out" would be more of a deterrent than "chance of dying", but I vaguely remember something like this from an advertising campaign against smoking.  Young people were shown ads that targeted different harms of smoking, and their responses were something like this:
  • You'll get emphysema! What do I care? I'll be old then.
  • You'll get cancer! Maybe in 30 years.  So what?
  • You'll get heart disease! Yeah, doesn't everyone?
  • You'll get droopy, wrinkled skin!  Aaaargh! I'll be ugly?! Help me quit!
So hearing "You'll be too tired to dance" might motivate more young people to try to avoid infection.

Any specifics on the vision problems?

Offline biobook

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2020, 01:27:27 PM »
Any specifics on the vision problems?
No, the 3 cases I posted about were all second-hand information, so I have no specifics.  Posted because I thought others might! 

And from Google it seems that there have not been any reports of serious visual problems after covid, but if they do occur, there's a theory that could explain it. 

from the Roski Eye Institute
https://eye.keckmedicine.org/how-covid-19-affects-the-eyes/

Is it true that pink eye is an early sign of COVID-19?

Yes, pinkeye, or conjunctivitis, has been reported to be a possible sign of infection from COVID-19. It is still uncertain exactly what percentage of patients with COVID-19 have ocular manifestations and different sources are reporting different numbers.

Although a recent study in JAMA Ophthalmology* reported up to one-third of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 had ocular abnormalities, more studies are still needed. Of course, causes of conjunctivitis that are not COVID-19 related continue to persist.


Can COVID-19 cause temporary or permanent damage to your eyes (perhaps from lack of oxygen)?


Although conjunctivitis, which is a temporary condition, has been linked to COVID-19, at this point permanent eye damage from COVID-19 has not been reported. If a patient were in respiratory distress long enough, theoretically poor perfusion and oxygen deprivation could lead to possible damage to metabolically active tissues, such as the optic nerve or retina, but this has yet to be reported in COVID-19 related cases. In this instance, eye damage would be caused by decreased oxygen, rather than the virus itself.

*This seems to be a reference to the early report that described conjunctivitis in many patients in China.

From the American Academy of Opthalmology
https://www.aao.org/eye-health/tips-prevention/covid-chloroquine-hydroxychloroquine-plaquenil

HCQ can cause retinal damage rarely, in those taking it long term for other diseases.  It's not expected to affect those who took HCQ for short-term covid treatment.

Offline biobook

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2020, 02:22:01 PM »
What would motivate someone who had mild symptoms and no lingering effect to avoid reinfection?
Not sure which you're asking.
1. Why should someone who had mild symptoms and no lingering effect avoid reinfection?
  • Because they could transmit it to others during the initial asymptomatic stage of their reinfection.
  • Because symptoms might be more severe the second time.
  • Because long term consequences may develop the second time.
2. What could we say that would persuade someone to take precautions to avoid reinfection?
  • IDK.  I suggested perhaps hearing about long term effects might work.
  • Your suggestions?

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2020, 04:18:04 PM »
Any specifics on the vision problems?

I don't know about any long-term vision issues, but I can definitely tell you that going shopping today, and I definitely had vision issues as a result of wearing a mask and having my glasses constantly fogged up....
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2020, 04:23:40 PM »
What would motivate someone who had mild symptoms and no lingering effect to avoid reinfection?
There hasn't been a flood of people becoming reinfected.  Only a handful of people around the world are suspected of that happening and none are confirmed.
So the questions is moot.  A person who no longer has covid need not worry about reinfection.
A person experiencing symptoms, may potentially spread it to others. Appealing to their common decency may motivate them to be careful no to infect others.

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2020, 04:29:32 PM »
There hasn't been a flood of people becoming reinfected.  Only a handful of people around the world are suspected of that happening and none are confirmed.
So the questions is moot.  A person who no longer has covid need not worry about reinfection.
A person experiencing symptoms, may potentially spread it to others. Appealing to their common decency may motivate them to be careful no to infect others.

I'm not sure why you posit that this is a moot question. I can see a benefit for me being reinfected and actually getting a positive COVID-19 PCR test. Why would I want to avoid it?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline biobook

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2020, 04:34:13 PM »
There hasn't been a flood of people becoming reinfected.  Only a handful of people around the world are suspected of that happening and none are confirmed.
That's exactly what reinfection would look like. It would start very gradually, as a few people start to lose immunity and come into contact with an infected person. 
Quote
A person experiencing symptoms, may potentially spread it to others. Appealing to their common decency may motivate them to be careful no to infect others.
More accurately:
A person experiencing symptoms, may have already spread it to others.
Transmission is highest a day or two before symptoms appear, so they need "common decency" before they know they're infected.

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2020, 04:58:46 PM »
I'm not sure why you posit that this is a moot question. I can see a benefit for me being reinfected and actually getting a positive COVID-19 PCR test. Why would I want to avoid it?
I assume you had it but have no antibodies?  I don't think you'll get it again.  Sorry. 

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Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2020, 05:02:06 PM »
I assume you had it but have no antibodies?  I don't think you'll get it again.  Sorry.
Does the virus ask what you think?