Delta to tlv opening May 8

[davidrotts63]

Thank you for clarifying. This is good information to have next time I hear how much more worth it it is for me to use a TA rather than book myself.

I just disputed a $3000 charge for Pesach flights that got canceled. Thank G-d I didn't use a TA, the one I would have picked is a good friend.

Kinda weird to get cocky like that when someone is honest with you.

[etech0]

Thank you for clarifying. This is good information to have next time I hear how much more worth it it is for me to use a TA rather than book myself.

Is it possible that a TA would have a better chance of getting the airline to refund than you would?

[ilherman]

You answered your own question. The answer is because you have the ability to claim a refund. Your issue in this scenario isn't that you can't claim a refund from the airline, it's that they won't give it to you. Those are not the same things.

With that information I think there's a fair compromise. @Dan should put a disclaimer letting people know that if they file a chargeback after booking with a TA, it could cause a loss to their TA and they should ask a rabbi. He should also put a disclaimer on every travel deal letting people know that if they book with a TA, they may lose their money for good. Fair?

Again, in a situation where the travel agent can not get a refund then the costumer would for sure not be able to get a refund. So to say that when you use a TA you may lose your money for good is nonsense. I am talking in a case where the airline is not providing the TA a refund (and wouldn't give it for the customer either) and you take out the money from the TA pocket then you are stealing.

[ilherman]

You keep calling the TA a broker. Can you think of a fundamental difference between a TA and every other type of broker arrangement I can think of?

As much as you guys want to blame / fault the TA it will not change the facts. Study the industry. A TA is not different thana insurance agent or any other broker for that matter. When an insurance company goes bankrupt you can not steal money from the insurance broker. As much as it hurts.

[davidrotts63]

Talking about charges from the airline.

I don't think the message you quoted was.

[aygart]

Again, in a situation where the travel agent can not get a refund then the costumer would for sure not be able to get a refund.

But he paid you for a service that he did not receive?

As much as you guys want to blame / fault the TA it will not change the facts. Study the industry. A TA is not different thana insurance agent or any other broker for that matter. When an insurance company goes bankrupt you can not steal money from the insurance broker. As much as it hurts.

When does an end user pay the insurance broker directly?

[Dan]

I've always been talking about airline charges.

But by all means, educate me. How often does a TA charge you directly for a flight on LY vs pass through?

[ilherman]

But he paid you for a service that he did not receive?
When does an end user pay the insurance broker directly?

My account was a flow through. For whatever reason.  Although not exactly the same but I am like the attorney where the funds for the deal went through my account.

[Yehuda57]

Kinda weird to get cocky like that when someone is honest with you.

I was not going for cocky. I legitimately didn't know about this issue despite having read about the pros and cons of using a TA on this site and discussing it with TAs. My tickets were booked with SAA. I was going to use a TA, because he's my friend and why not give him the business? The only reason I didn't was because I was able to hold a sale price for 72 hours on SAA, and by the time I was ready to book, he couldn't get me that price. Now SAA didn't refund me and they are going bankrupt. I am very happy that I didn't dispute the charge and unknowingly have it be taken from his pocket. I can't afford to lose the 3k, and I definitely wouldn't want a good friend to lose it.

[Lurker]

I've always been talking about airline charges.

But by all means, educate me. How often does a TA charge you directly for a flight on LY vs pass through?

Wait, there's a halachic issue getting your money back from the airline because a TA may lose his commission?

[ilherman]

I've always been talking about airline charges.

But by all means, educate me. How often does a TA charge you directly for a flight on LY vs pass through?

Not often but happens. Group tickets etc.

Certain airlines only allow check payment so TA pays and charges client CC etc

[aygart]

My account was a flow through. For whatever reason.  Although not exactly the same but I am like the attorney where the funds for the deal went through my account.

Not at all. When money goes through an escrow and the account was only a flow through the end-user is a direct customer of the service provider. It is not the service provider will tell the end user that they are not his customer, the attorney is. If the attorney is the provider's customer then there are 2 sales happening.

[Dan]

Not often but happens. Group tickets etc.

Certain airlines only allow check payment so TA pays and charges client CC etc

That's what I figured. Your typical person booked on LY should see an LY charge.

[ilherman]

I was not going for cocky. I legitimately didn't know about this issue despite having read about the pros and cons of using a TA on this site and discussing it with TAs. My tickets were booked with SAA. I was going to use a TA, because he's my friend and why not give him the business? The only reason I didn't was because I was able to hold a sale price for 72 hours on SAA, and by the time I was ready to book, he couldn't get me that price. Now SAA didn't refund me and they are going bankrupt. I am very happy that I didn't dispute the charge and unknowingly have it be taken from his pocket. I can't afford to lose the 3k, and I definitely wouldn't want a good friend to lose it.

In that case the TA would dispute instead of you. And get your money back that way.

[aygart]

Not often but happens. Group tickets etc.

Certain airlines only allow check payment so TA pays and charges client CC etc

But who is the airline's customer?

[Yehuda57]

As much as you guys want to blame / fault the TA it will not change the facts. Study the industry. A TA is not different thana insurance agent or any other broker for that matter. When an insurance company goes bankrupt you can not steal money from the insurance broker. As much as it hurts.

You didn't answer my question.

When does an end user pay the insurance broker directly?

This was my point.

My account was a flow through. For whatever reason.  Although not exactly the same but I am like the attorney where the funds for the deal went through my account.

An escrow account works to solve this exact problem. Far from proving your point, it's doing the opposite.

Is it possible that a TA would have a better chance of getting the airline to refund than you would?

I can't say for sure, but based on the fact that they are going bankrupt and are "creating a task force to decide which tickets deserve to be refunded" (as they answered my DOT complaint, I doubt it.

[ilherman]

Not at all. When money goes through an escrow and the account was only a flow through the end-user is a direct customer of the service provider. It is not the service provider will tell the end user that they are not his customer, the attorney is. If the attorney is the provider's customer then there are 2 sales happening.

Same here. Its not the TA who is the airlines customer, its the passenger.

[Yehuda57]

In that case the TA would dispute instead of you. And get your money back that way.

How am I supposed to know, as a clueless consumer, when the TA will be able to dispute and when not?

[ilherman]

People here still think that the way travel agents work is by buying a bunch of seats and then selling them?

People ask me all the time if this is how it works. I thought here on DDF people know better.

[ilherman]

How am I supposed to know, as a clueless consumer, when the TA will be able to dispute and when not?

PUTHPAC.