Delta to tlv opening May 8

[Lurker]

Serious question for the TAs, not coming in with any biases. If I'm a customer who needs to get my money back, what should I do?

[ilherman]

Serious question for the TAs, not coming in with any biases. If I'm a customer who needs to get my money back, what should I do?

It's like asking, What should I do if I bought a building and my tenants are not paying me rent? Can I run to the broker and force him to pay all the rents I am being owed?

The travel agent is a mere middleman between you and the airline. You bought a ticket from the airline and the airline has to pay you back. By taking it out of the travel agents pocket its like robbing a bank.  The travel agent is not holding your money. He was the broker.

[shapsam]

Serious question for the TAs, not coming in with any biases. If I'm a customer who needs to get my money back, what should I do?

If the TA processed the charge, ask your LOR.

[Lurker]

It's like asking, What should I do if I bought a building and my tenants are not paying me rent? Can I run to the broker and force him to pay all the rents I am being owed?

The travel agent is a mere middleman between you and the airline. You bought a ticket from the airline and the airline has to pay you back. By taking it out of the travel agents pocket its like robbing a bank.  The travel agent is not holding your money. He was the broker.

Not even remotely the same, for a host of reasons. Ignoring the obvious issues, you didn't answer the question. I'm not worried about you or your money. I'm worried about mine. How do I get it back? What recourse do I have?

[Lurker]

If the TA processed the charge, ask your LOR.

I'm not asking halachic questions. I'm asking for a professional opinion. What I'm hearing is, "We don't have your money, don't come to us. Sorry you can't get your money back from anyone, but please use our services again in the future." I can't imagine that this is the professional response, so I'm asking  the professionals to explain how this works.

[shapsam]

If someone wants to explain, I'd be open to posting it.

Explain that there's a difference if your disputing an airline charge vs a TA charge? How can you take money out of someone's account without asking a Rov or going to din torah?

[Dan]

Explain that there's a difference if your disputing an airline charge vs a TA charge? How can you take money out of someone's account without asking a Rov or going to din torah?

It's not obvious that money will come out of TA pockets for COVID cancellations.

[Yehuda57]

Explain that there's a difference if your disputing an airline charge vs a TA charge? How can you take money out of someone's account without asking a Rov or going to din torah?

TAs should then be upfront with customers that if the proverbial feces hits the ceiling-mounted cooling air blades, they will be SOL.

[Yehuda57]

I think this conversation will be easily resolved if/when TAs take Dan up on his offer. I'm assuming Dan will allow you to sign your name on the Op-Ed, so you'd also be getting about as good an advertising opportunity as there is available in the frum world for free. If people keep posting here without writing an Op-Ed, well, that tells us all we need to know.

[ilherman]

Not even remotely the same, for a host of reasons. Ignoring the obvious issues, you didn't answer the question. I'm not worried about you or your money. I'm worried about mine. How do I get it back? What recourse do I have?

Of course they are. The fact that the transaction went through my agency processing is a technical detail which is not working out in your favor now. I am not holding your money. Not al all.

Its like robbing the attorney who you kept the money in escrow with. I don't know how else to explain it.

Do you know how a travel agent works? He is brokering you a ticket. He is not responsible for anything else. If the airline goes bankrupt and the CC company does not want to pay you back for whatever reason, the TA would have no obligation to you

[davidrotts63]

It's not obvious that money will come out of TA pockets for COVID cancellations.

If it's the TA's own merchant account? It will be the TA losing it, surely at least untill he gets the money back from the airline.

I think this conversation will be easily resolved if/when TAs take Dan up on his offer. I'm assuming Dan will allow you to sign your name on the Op-Ed, so you'd also be getting about as good an advertising opportunity as there is available in the frum world for free. If people keep posting here without writing an Op-Ed, well, that tells us all we need to know.

Probably not anything anyone wants to advertise...

[Lurker]

Of course they are. The fact that the transaction went through my agency processing is a technical detail which is not working out in your favor now. I am not holding your money. Not al all.

Its like robbing the attorney who you kept the money in escrow with. I don't know how else to explain it.

Do you know how a travel agent works? He is brokering you a ticket. He is not responsible for anything else. If the airline goes bankrupt and the CC company does not want to pay you back for whatever reason, the TA would have no obligation to you

Your analogies are killing me, so I'm going to ignore them and get to the meat of the issue. If I use a TA, the TA has the ability to get refunded by the airline, but not me. So why can't I hold the TA responsible to refund me?

[ilherman]

Your analogies are killing me, so I'm going to ignore them and get to the meat of the issue. If I use a TA, the TA has the ability to get refunded by the airline, but not me. So why can't I hold the TA responsible to refund me?

LOL.

Of course if the TA has the ability to get refunded by the airline then you deserve a refund

I am talking in a scenario where the airline would not refund the TA and you want to take out money of the TAs pocket. Like my analogies or not its called stealing in a clean way.

[Lurker]

LOL.

Of course if the TA has the ability to get refunded by the airline then you deserve a refund

I am talking in a scenario where the airline would not refund the TA and you want to take out money of the TAs pocket. Like my analogies or not its called stealing in a clean way.

DoT tells me I have a right to a refund. I can't claim it from the airline, because I'm not their customer. Why can't I claim it from you?

[Yehuda57]

Probably not anything anyone wants to advertise...

Thank you for clarifying. This is good information to have next time I hear how much more worth it it is for me to use a TA rather than book myself.

I just disputed a $3000 charge for Pesach flights that got canceled. Thank G-d I didn't use a TA, the one I would have picked is a good friend.

[ilherman]

DoT tells me I have a right to a refund. I can't claim it from the airline, because I'm not their customer. Why can't I claim it from you?

Before I actually answer your question, please tell me, why do I as the broker have to refund you?

The Dot tells you that the airline has to refund.

Now, to your question, if the TA has to ability to claim a refund then again you are right.

[etech0]

I wonder if the customer would win a dispute in such a situation

[Lurker]

Before I actually answer your question, please tell me, why do I as the broker have to refund you?

The Dot tells you that the airline has to refund.

Now, to your question, if the TA has to ability to claim a refund then again you are right.

You answered your own question. The answer is because you have the ability to claim a refund. Your issue in this scenario isn't that you can't claim a refund from the airline, it's that they won't give it to you. Those are not the same things.

With that information I think there's a fair compromise. @Dan should put a disclaimer letting people know that if they file a chargeback after booking with a TA, it could cause a loss to their TA and they should ask a rabbi. He should also put a disclaimer on every travel deal letting people know that if they book with a TA, they may lose their money for good. Fair?

[Yehuda57]

Before I actually answer your question, please tell me, why do I as the broker have to refund you?

The Dot tells you that the airline has to refund.

Now, to your question, if the TA has to ability to claim a refund then again you are right.

You keep calling the TA a broker. Can you think of a fundamental difference between a TA and every other type of broker arrangement I can think of?

[Dan]

If it's the TA's own merchant account?

Talking about charges from the airline.