Author Topic: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments  (Read 32127 times)

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2020, 10:04:44 PM »
And a residential lease is? Someone that goes “to the country” for 2 months in the summer shouldn’t pay their rent?

The space is yours to use (or not) per your agreement for a set duration.

There's a huge attitute problem amongst the young couples in Israel.

Most them are young kids, freshly married spoiled brats from well to do homes.

Israel to them is a "Camp". They sign $2,000-$3,000 leases while having 0 income (daddy pays).

They don't understand what a utility bill is, they can't wrap their immature heads around the concepts of Vaad Baayit or Arnona.

They treat it like a game. Which landlord can they screw next. I started vetting more and more but noticed that even the uber-rich don't care.

To them it's not an apartment, it's a honeymoon suite. Well if I can play games with Hotels I'm entitles to same here too, no?

There is a yid whose name is well know in the world, a level wealth on the richlist, probably the wealthiest chareidi family on earth (not American. Way wealthier than Scheiner Rechnitz etc).

His grandkids take apartments in Jerusalem by flashing the brand name. Tachlis, the rents do not get paid and you can't talk to any Dayan because no-one can go against these guys.

I think this might belong in the wedding thread, but sending off kids to Israel needs to way regulated past Corona.

/end rant
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 10:10:25 PM by YesThatsMe »

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2020, 10:08:06 PM »
The same goes with בחורים דירות, but thank god I'm not in that line.

Offline SamCan

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2020, 10:18:51 PM »
To clarify what does the tenant say? If the tenant doesn’t want to pay but wants to keep the lease Why should they not be required to pay. If they want to break the lease we have to take into account the local laws regarding tenants that want to break leases. 

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2020, 10:20:29 PM »
To clarify what does the tenant say? If the tenant doesn’t want to pay but wants to keep the lease Why should they not be required to pay. If they want to break the lease we have to take into account the local laws regarding tenants that want to break leases.

Some gibberish about a closed border. Local law in Israel allows landlord to force entry and take possession if there is valid reason to believe the unit is currently unoccupied.

Offline yaakov35

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2020, 10:21:15 PM »
Who asked you to leave so you can’t use it? Should businesses that are “shuttered” not pay their leases since the government is not letting them open?
You can argue this any which way. Fact is most aren't

Offline lubaby

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2020, 10:22:48 PM »
You can argue this any which way. Fact is most aren't
By getting a free grant that the government is giving them, to cover the cost? That’s still paying..

They are not telling the landlord “screw you”.

Offline whacked1

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2020, 10:24:15 PM »
By getting a free grant that the government is giving them, to cover the cost? That’s still paying..

They are not telling the landlord “screw you”.
I beg to differ.

Offline lubaby

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2020, 10:26:38 PM »
I beg to differ.
Of course, people can say or (try to) do whatever they want. But what does the law say?

Offline ilherman

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2020, 10:27:07 PM »
that is not relevant to the fact that the government is now preventing you from using the apartment
Right. But it's relevant in terms of paying your rent..
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline SamCan

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2020, 10:27:10 PM »
Some gibberish about a closed border. Local law in Israel allows landlord to force entry and take possession if there is valid reason to believe the unit is currently unoccupied.


So it seems they want to keep the lease.

I don’t see why this is relevant to makos medina. They could have stayed and knew they might not have flights on the way back, that’s why they all left in the first place. Unlike a teacher or camp which is forced to close.

You might want to be careful as Halacha might differ with the law on this one.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2020, 10:30:32 PM »

So it seems they want to keep the lease.

I don’t see why this is relevant to makos medina. They could have stayed and knew they might not have flights on the way back, that’s why they all left in the first place. Unlike a teacher or camp which is forced to close.

You might want to be careful as Halacha might differ with the law on this one.

It does differ. Rav Shafran is paskening Oneis here and Hamotzih Olov Harayeh. Im an Halachik Jew, I will follow din torah.

So I'm gonna be selling some Ben Barber linen and Bed Bath & Beyond towels and Mckenzies Childs (yoish) stuff for a few Shekels...

Offline whacked1

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2020, 10:32:41 PM »
Of course, people can say or (try to) do whatever they want. But what does the law say?
I'm not sure what you are saying. The "law" would be dependent on your lease. However, there is an executive order that closes all courts. Therefore there is no law. Essentially screw you.  (NYC )

Offline SamCan

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2020, 10:39:16 PM »
It does differ. Rav Shafran is paskening Oneis here and Hamotzih Olov Harayeh. Im an Halachik Jew, I will follow din torah.

So I'm gonna be selling some Ben Barber linen and Bed Bath & Beyond towels and Mckenzies Childs (yoish) stuff for a few Shekels...


Sorry I’m confused. So they are required to pay you, but they aren’t so you are seizing their towels. Or they are not required?

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2020, 10:41:45 PM »

Sorry I’m confused. So they are required to pay you, but they aren’t so you are seizing their towels. Or they are not required?

Its a safek, so you can't "collect".

Whatever you have possession of now is what you're left with. So landlords are left with towels, and tenants are left with their money.

Offline SamCan

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2020, 10:45:12 PM »
Its a safek, so you can't "collect".

Whatever you have possession of now is what you're left with. So landlords are left with towels, and tenants are left with their money.


If a tenant left something over is the landlord considered mechzuk?

Also is it possible that the psak was only regarding those that officially gave up the apartment and allow you to try to find other tenants, while if they don’t allow you to find new tenants than they must pay you?

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2020, 10:48:06 PM »

If a tenant left something over is the landlord considered mechzuk?

Why not? You just said the lease is over, so I went in and found your junk.

Also is it possible that the psak was only regarding those that officially gave up the apartment and allow you to try to find other tenants, while if they don’t allow you to find new tenants than they must pay you?

/quote]It is, obviously.

Offline SamCan

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2020, 10:52:30 PM »
Unless they explicitly told you you can keep what’s there. I’m not sure that telling you a lease is over makes you mechzuk on their items.


Offline Yehudaa

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2020, 11:01:14 PM »
There's a huge attitute problem amongst the young couples in Israel.

Most them are young kids, freshly married spoiled brats from well to do homes.

Israel to them is a "Camp". They sign $2,000-$3,000 leases while having 0 income (daddy pays).

They don't understand what a utility bill is, they can't wrap their immature heads around the concepts of Vaad Baayit or Arnona.

They treat it like a game. Which landlord can they screw next. I started vetting more and more but noticed that even the uber-rich don't care.

To them it's not an apartment, it's a honeymoon suite. Well if I can play games with Hotels I'm entitles to same here too, no?

While I truly feel for you, I think that's quite a generalization. Speaking from experience as someone who lived there for a year not too long ago, I can tell you that we rented a 34 m apartment (you can ask the guys in the DDF shabbos meals thread!) for ~$1000, paid early every month, repainted the bathroom myself (with baal dira's permission) and left the apt cleaner than we got it when we left.

And I can tell you that although I know a couple of people who I can picture doing the things that you're talking about, the vast majority that I know are much more similar to myself.

One relative of mine recently looked at an apartment, told the baal dira they were taking it and then found something much better. They went to their Rav, who advised them to keep their word even though nothing was signed, so they did. In contrast, when I moved to Israel we found an apartment, told the baal dira that we were taking it, made up a time to come sign and pay our deposit that night, and then the baal dira called me right before and said he found someone who'd pay him 100 shekel more.

I think your apartment is just too nice. Ironically, I assume you'd have a very different experience if you were the landlord of a smaller/cheaper apartment.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2020, 11:05:19 PM »
While I truly feel for you, I think that's quite a generalization. Speaking from experience as someone who lived there for a year not too long ago, I can tell you that we rented a 34 m apartment (you can ask the guys in the DDF shabbos meals thread!) for ~$1000, paid early every month, repainted the bathroom myself (with baal dira's permission) and left the apt cleaner than we got it when we left.

And I can tell you that although I know a couple of people who I can picture doing the things that you're talking about, the vast majority that I know are much more similar to myself.

One relative of mine recently looked at an apartment, told the baal dira they were taking it and then found something much better. They went to their Rav, who advised them to keep their word even though nothing was signed, so they did. In contrast, when I moved to Israel we found an apartment, told the baal dira that we were taking it, made up a time to come sign and pay our deposit that night, and then the baal dira called me right before and said he found someone who'd pay him 100 shekel more.

I think your apartment is just too nice. Ironically, I assume you'd have a very different experience if you were the landlord of a smaller/cheaper apartment.

I have 29 apartments in all different sizes. I would say its 50/50 good couples bad couples, not a small minority.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2020, 11:06:42 PM »
Are you paying?

You signed a lease, no-one forced you to leave, when you left you knew the border back was closed, and your apartment is fully accessible.

Why can't they go "back" to Israel? If they have a lease on an apartment in Israel where they can self-quarantine, aren't they allowed in?

The lease and local laws govern.

My (mother's) tenants lease is over at the end of June. We are agreeing to an extension of up to two month after lock down ends. Though we will limit it so they can't leave just before ראש השנה leaving us stuck for a month. Not in Jerusalem. Israeli tenants.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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