Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments

[YesThatsMe]

Why can't they go "back" to Israel? If they have a lease on an apartment in Israel where they can self-quarantine, aren't they allowed in?

The lease and local laws govern.

My (mother's) tenants lease is over at the end of June. We are agreeing to an extension of up to two month after lock down ends. Though we will limit it so they can't leave just before ראש השנה leaving us stuck for a month. Not in Jerusalem. Israeli tenants.

Border is closed for non-Israelis.

[SamCan]

Also check who’s name is on the lease, maybe their parents would be more generous.

Even if it’s makos Medina why would this be different from the Baltimore and Lakewood beis din that recommend paying at least a third for playgroup teachers.

Did your rav pasken to you directly or was it a general psak.

[mme]

While I truly feel for you, I think that's quite a generalization. Speaking from experience as someone who lived there for a year not too long ago, I can tell you that we rented a 34 m apartment (you can ask the guys in the DDF shabbos meals thread!) for ~$1000, paid early every month, repainted the bathroom myself (with baal dira's permission) and left the apt cleaner than we got it when we left.

And I can tell you that although I know a couple of people who I can picture doing the things that you're talking about, the vast majority that I know are much more similar to myself.

One relative of mine recently looked at an apartment, told the baal dira they were taking it and then found something much better. They went to their Rav, who advised them to keep their word even though nothing was signed, so they did. In contrast, when I moved to Israel we found an apartment, told the baal dira that we were taking it, made up a time to come sign and pay our deposit that night, and then the baal dira called me right before and said he found someone who'd pay him 100 shekel more.

I think your apartment is just too nice. Ironically, I assume you'd have a very different experience if you were the landlord of a smaller/cheaper apartment.

+1 i also moved back not long ago after living there over a year had a little bigger apartment but payed on time every month and know a few more that live there no pairints paying for the rent

[aygart]

My point was more that they are actually using the apartment to store their items. If they aren't paying rent then get them out.

[ExGingi]

Border is closed for non-Israelis.

What kind of Visa do they have while living in Israel?

I have family members who have lived in Israel for decades without becoming Israeli citizens. I doubt they wouldn't be allowed back to where they live, just because they are non-citizens. (One of them actually cancelled Pesach travel plans when there were only restrictions based on age).

[Yehudaa]

So I'm gonna be selling some Ben Barber linen and Bed Bath & Beyond towels and Mckenzies Childs (yoish) stuff for a few Shekels...

You'll recoup more if you store it and sell it back to them when (if?) they come back. They'll definitely pay you more than you'll get on yad2 or wherever....

[ExGingi]

My point was more that they are actually using the apartment to store their items. If they aren't paying rent then get them out.

Exactly. Local laws govern.

If they aren't paying rent, your remedies are whatever the lease says (as long as it adheres to local law and Halacha. Once evicted, if they left over their belongings, AYLOR (you mentioned Schafran who has a strong backbone and will give you a clear Halachic psak). Do those belongings have the same din as the second part of the בבא מציעא פרק ב משנה ז?

[Hjay]

There's a huge attitute problem amongst the young couples in Israel.

Most them are young kids, freshly married spoiled brats from well to do homes.

Israel to them is a "Camp". They sign $2,000-$3,000 leases while having 0 income (daddy pays).

They don't understand what a utility bill is, they can't wrap their immature heads around the concepts of Vaad Baayit or Arnona.

They treat it like a game. Which landlord can they screw next. I started vetting more and more but noticed that even the uber-rich don't care.

To them it's not an apartment, it's a honeymoon suite. Well if I can play games with Hotels I'm entitles to same here too, no?

There is a yid whose name is well know in the world, a level wealth on the richlist, probably the wealthiest chareidi family on earth (not American. Way wealthier than Scheiner Rechnitz etc).

His grandkids take apartments in Jerusalem by flashing the brand name. Tachlis, the rents do not get paid and you can't talk to any Dayan because no-one can go against these guys.

I think this might belong in the wedding thread, but sending off kids to Israel needs to way regulated past Corona.

/end rant

It’s clear you’re going through a tough situation but stereotyping & ranting like that won’t get you anywhere. I’ve lived in israel for five years already & none of what you said is true about me or many others I know. People like this exist wherever they live so instead of deciding it’s an israel problem realize that it’s the ppl you’re dealing with & like somebody else replied maybe deal with a different clientele.

I came back to America before they closed the border & now I’m stuck here… am I a spoiled selfish brat for discussing with my landlord & speaking to a rav if necessary about my chiyuv at this point… no I don’t plan on walking away & telling my landlord screw you but it’s gonna be tough for me to pay months of rent now without being able to be there…

[gotthepoint]

It’s clear you’re going through a tough situation but stereotyping & ranting like that won’t get you anywhere. I’ve lived in israel for five years already & none of what you said is true about me or many others I know. People like this exist wherever they live so instead of deciding it’s an israel problem realize that it’s the ppl you’re dealing with & like somebody else replied maybe deal with a different clientele.

I came back to America before they closed the border & now I’m stuck here… am I a spoiled selfish brat for discussing with my landlord & speaking to a rav if necessary about my chiyuv at this point… no I don’t plan on walking away & telling my landlord screw you but it’s gonna be tough for me to pay months of rent now without being able to be there…

+1000

[gotthepoint]

I have 29 apartments in all different sizes. I would say its 50/50 good couples bad couples, not a small minority.

are they yours or your "dads"?

[aygart]

It’s clear you’re going through a tough situation but stereotyping & ranting like that won’t get you anywhere. I’ve lived in israel for five years already & none of what you said is true about me or many others I know. People like this exist wherever they live so instead of deciding it’s an israel problem realize that it’s the ppl you’re dealing with & like somebody else replied maybe deal with a different clientele.

I came back to America before they closed the border & now I’m stuck here… am I a spoiled selfish brat for discussing with my landlord & speaking to a rav if necessary about my chiyuv at this point… no I don’t plan on walking away & telling my landlord screw you but it’s gonna be tough for me to pay months of rent now without being able to be there…

Are you paying rent bite where you are?

[ari3]

It does differ. Rav Shafran is paskening Oneis here and Hamotzih Olov Harayeh. Im an Halachik Jew, I will follow din torah.

So I'm gonna be selling some Ben Barber linen and Bed Bath & Beyond towels and Mckenzies Childs (yoish) stuff for a few Shekels...

If you are following halacha you cannot follow your own rav's psak to take unilateral action involving another party. You would need to adjudicate the case in beis din.

[Hjay]

Are you paying rent bite where you are?

Do you think I’m still getting paid for what I was doing in israel?

I’m not looking to discuss my financials with the internet. I specifically left out details & didn’t put a question mark after my statement of “Am I a selfish brat… I was just trying to make a point.

[Proisrael]

Anyone in Israel who rented a place has a year+ Visa which would allow them to return regardless of being a full citizen. Therefore these people are choosing to stay home and not come back hence they are breaking the law and the Baal dira can do what he likes.

[aygart]

Do you think I’m still getting paid for what I was doing in israel?

I’m not looking to discuss my financials with the internet. I specifically left out details & didn’t put a question mark after my statement of “Am I a selfish brat… I was just trying to make a point.

So you are in the same boat as everyone else out of a job, but by living with someone else have almost zero expenses other than the rent?

[gotthepoint]

Anyone in Israel who rented a place has a year+ Visa which would allow them to return regardless of being a full citizen. Therefore these people are choosing to stay home and not come back hence they are breaking the law and the Baal dira can do what he likes.

who told you this your mother?

[Baglach]

I have 29 apartments in all different sizes. I would say its 50/50 good couples bad couples, not a small minority.

To put it at 50/50 is completely wrong, ive been here for close to 10 years now and definitely the majority pay on time and pay arnona, vad bayis etc.
On a side note if you deal with 29 apartments its very possible that you are a so called broker which a majority of them aren't honest (i wouldn't know about you obviously.) But if you feel like 50% are not ok as said maybe find another clientele

[Proisrael]

who told you this your mother?

Where did you miss your comma?

[JMHO]

Why not throw the couples personal stuff out of the apartment and rent it the apartment to a local now?

[gotthepoint]

Where did you miss your comma?

So, I guess you don't have an answer to the question.