Author Topic: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments  (Read 14947 times)

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #100 on: April 23, 2020, 05:46:43 AM »
that is not relevant to the fact that the government is now preventing you from using the apartment

So if you commit a crime and the government puts you in jail, you’re also magically exempt from rent because “the guv’mint won’t let me”?

Your stupidity and irresponsibility doesn’t make your responsibilities magically go away. You put your signature on a contract, you are bound by that contact, according to law AND halacha (unless a COMPETENT lawyer and/or Rav tells you otherwise). End of story.

Offline hocker

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #101 on: April 23, 2020, 06:00:39 AM »
@YesThatsMe Since we see you're so concerned about Yashrus and being an Ehrliche manager on behalf of the owner, can you please tell us whether you require your landlords to pay the agent fee when a new tenant comes in?

As you should be aware the law in Israel is that the broker fee must be paid by the landlord.

Offline Emkay

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #102 on: April 23, 2020, 06:09:39 AM »
There's a huge attitute problem amongst the young couples in Israel.

Most them are young kids, freshly married spoiled brats from well to do homes.

Israel to them is a "Camp". They sign $2,000-$3,000 leases while having 0 income (daddy pays).

They don't understand what a utility bill is, they can't wrap their immature heads around the concepts of Vaad Baayit or Arnona.

They treat it like a game. Which landlord can they screw next. I started vetting more and more but noticed that even the uber-rich don't care.

To them it's not an apartment, it's a honeymoon suite. Well if I can play games with Hotels I'm entitles to same here too, no?

There is a yid whose name is well know in the world, a level wealth on the richlist, probably the wealthiest chareidi family on earth (not American. Way wealthier than Scheiner Rechnitz etc).

His grandkids take apartments in Jerusalem by flashing the brand name. Tachlis, the rents do not get paid and you can't talk to any Dayan because no-one can go against these guys.

I think this might belong in the wedding thread, but sending off kids to Israel needs to way regulated past Corona.

/end rant

I'd love to respond to each of your ridiculous posts, but the time and patience is simply not there.
Your generalizations are very off. Here's another few widely accepted generalizations with significantly more truth to try on for size. 1)There isn't one single honest apt broker in this country. 2)Apt managers/brokers are greedy rats with the single goal of fleeching whatever they can from the "wealthy campers daddies" 3)There isn't one single honest apt broker in this country.

And the reason why you go through these hardships should be blindingly obvious to you. The only ones that pay your obscene prices are those are "honeymooners" because they are the only ones that can afford your artificially inflated rent. Don't try saying you can't get contracts signed, you can't take them to BD, they can't figure out bills, you can't get headchecks..... You knowingly and willingly overlook this issues and risks because Uncle Benjamin is all you can see when you're in this business. The vast majority of every other community in Jerusalem manage just fine. All of a sudden when your toupee hits the fan, you're the victim? Run an honest business and you wouldn't be as bitter.
The crowd you refer to is most certainly a miniscule portion of the Americans living in Israel, come out of your shell and look out of your bubble. Just remember a a moldy apple will keep on attracting worms. So to a moldy apple the world is full of creepy crawlies.

Now that we have this subtle rebuttal out of the way, I see no reason why they wouldn't have to pay rent. I was told the names of a couple Rabbanim who said people didn't have to pay, but when contacting said Rabbanim I was told otherwise. And as much as I'm aware any Chosen Mishpat BD that was asked so far in Jerusalem said they likely have to pay.


Do I have to write "/end rant"? Because I'm most certainly not done.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 06:13:28 AM by Emkay »

Offline hocker

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #103 on: April 23, 2020, 06:11:17 AM »
It does differ. Rav Shafran is paskening Oneis here and Hamotzih Olov Harayeh. Im an Halachik Jew, I will follow din torah.

So I'm gonna be selling some Ben Barber linen and Bed Bath & Beyond towels and Mckenzies Childs (yoish) stuff for a few Shekels...
Selling someone else's stuff which isn't yours is at best עביד איניש דינא לנפשיה and at worst outright גניבה.

You can't claim המוציא מחבירו עליו הראיה on items that there's no safek that they don't belong to you.  You can demand he remove them from the apartment within a reasonable time frame, but you can't sell them.
Car Rentals in Israel - http://www.rechev.rentals/

Offline Drago

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #104 on: April 23, 2020, 07:33:53 AM »
What does local law say about garnishing possessions of tenants that stop paying?
I imagine there's plenty of case law on this.

Offline Emkay

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #105 on: April 23, 2020, 07:42:59 AM »
What does local law say about garnishing possessions of tenants that stop paying?
I imagine there's plenty of case law on this.
I looked into it a few years ago. I don't remember specifics but it involves sending a few properly worded legal letters, and then after a certain period of time filing an eviction claim. Can take a few months sometimes.
If the Baal Dirah or sneaky broker/manager  takes a single thing out or does as much as change the lock, he can face a bigger lawsuit and fine than all the money he shortchanged his tenants for that entire rental period.
Obviously each case is different.

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #106 on: April 23, 2020, 07:55:09 AM »
Halevai. But student visas cannot enter.

Do you know of even a single person that tried to apply for an entry permit, and was denied? Or is everyone just assuming that they won't be able to get in?

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #107 on: April 23, 2020, 08:03:29 AM »
Unless they have a place to quarantine.

Incorrect. "Place to quarantine" is no longer relevant, as the government [wisely] no longer allows that, after seeing how many idiots think they're above the law, and don't stick to the self-quarantine rules. Instead, all arrivals are now taken to government-run quarantine hotels, where they are babysat 24/7 for two weeks.

You can either get into Israel, or you can't. But having your own place to quarantine no longer plays any role whatsoever in the government's decision.

Offline Drago

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #108 on: April 23, 2020, 08:03:38 AM »
I looked into it a few years ago. I don't remember specifics but it involves sending a few properly worded legal letters, and then after a certain period of time filing an eviction claim. Can take a few months sometimes.
If the Baal Dirah or sneaky broker/manager  takes a single thing out or does as much as change the lock, he can face a bigger lawsuit and fine than all the money he shortchanged his tenants for that entire rental period.
Obviously each case is different.

Yea, i recall hearing that the eviction process can take a while.
Seems unlikely that the OP's company would take the risk of selling their tenant's possessions without having all i's and t's properly marked.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #109 on: April 23, 2020, 08:05:36 AM »
@YesThatsMe Since we see you're so concerned about Yashrus and being an Ehrliche manager on behalf of the owner, can you please tell us whether you require your landlords to pay the agent fee when a new tenant comes in?

As you should be aware the law in Israel is that the broker fee must be paid by the landlord.

Of course.  Each broker operates differently and most take a months rent from each the landlord and tenant. But I barely work with brokers, people know who we are and come directly so there's no broker fee involved

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #110 on: April 23, 2020, 08:13:37 AM »
Yea, i recall hearing that the eviction process can take a while.
Seems unlikely that the OP's company would take the risk of selling their tenant's possessions without having all i's and t's properly marked.

We work with a lawyer,  and the first step is to take possession of the init, as long as you aren't displacing the tenants, who are not there.

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #111 on: April 23, 2020, 08:14:23 AM »
Of course.  Each broker operates differently and most take a months rent from each the landlord and tenant. But I barely work with brokers, people know who we are and come directly so there's no broker fee involved

Is your lease an Israeli contract or an American one?

Do you care to post a sample (without names)?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Hjay

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #112 on: April 23, 2020, 08:16:31 AM »
Do you know of even a single person that tried to apply for an entry permit, and was denied? Or is everyone just assuming that they won't be able to get in?

Do you know of a single person that did apply & was allowed in? Would be very happy to hear info contrary to 100% of the info out there
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 08:20:11 AM by Hjay »

Offline moko

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #113 on: April 23, 2020, 08:18:50 AM »
Do you know of a single prison that did apply & was allowed in? Would be very happy to hear info contrary to 100% of the info out there
I hear they're releasing people, not accepting more in.  :)

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #114 on: April 23, 2020, 08:20:03 AM »
I'd love to respond to each of your ridiculous posts, but the time and patience is simply not there.
Your generalizations are very off. Here's another few widely accepted generalizations with significantly more truth to try on for size. 1)There isn't one single honest apt broker in this country. 2)Apt managers/brokers are greedy rats with the single goal of fleeching whatever they can from the "wealthy campers daddies" 3)There isn't one single honest apt broker in this country.

And the reason why you go through these hardships should be blindingly obvious to you. The only ones that pay your obscene prices are those are "honeymooners" because they are the only ones that can afford your artificially inflated rent. Don't try saying you can't get contracts signed, you can't take them to BD, they can't figure out bills, you can't get headchecks..... You knowingly and willingly overlook this issues and risks because Uncle Benjamin is all you can see when you're in this business. The vast majority of every other community in Jerusalem manage just fine. All of a sudden when your toupee hits the fan, you're the victim? Run an honest business and you wouldn't be as bitter.
The crowd you refer to is most certainly a miniscule portion of the Americans living in Israel, come out of your shell and look out of your bubble. Just remember a a moldy apple will keep on attracting worms. So to a moldy apple the world is full of creepy crawlies.

Now that we have this subtle rebuttal out of the way, I see no reason why they wouldn't have to pay rent. I was told the names of a couple Rabbanim who said people didn't have to pay, but when contacting said Rabbanim I was told otherwise. And as much as I'm aware any Chosen Mishpat BD that was asked so far in Jerusalem said they likely have to pay.


Do I have to write "/end rant"? Because I'm most certainly not done.

Landlord are also all greedy? We are not brokers. You sound a bit like AOC...

As I said before our rents are fair for the buildings we are in. We like quick turns and don't wait for people who can pay more. When you are running many units thigs trade at market prices, not at some artificial high one.

I know I am dealing with honeymooners.  Most American couples in Israel are honeymooners.  Middle class honeymooners rent one type of asset, and wealthy honeymooners rent better ones. Rent collection is usually not the issue, people don't set out to steal. It's the fact that 50% of honeymooners not abiding by lease terms and playing games that bothers me.

Offline Hjay

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #115 on: April 23, 2020, 08:20:39 AM »
I hear they're releasing people, not accepting more in.  :)

Haha thanks. Fixed

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #116 on: April 23, 2020, 08:22:05 AM »
Is your lease an Israeli contract or an American one?

Do you care to post a sample (without names)?

Israeli. This is an Israeli company.  I can't post a lease as it's way to revealing (as if I totally didn't give myself away here by now)

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #117 on: April 23, 2020, 08:24:44 AM »
I looked into it a few years ago. I don't remember specifics but it involves sending a few properly worded legal letters, and then after a certain period of time filing an eviction claim. Can take a few months sometimes.
If the Baal Dirah or sneaky broker/manager  takes a single thing out or does as much as change the lock, he can face a bigger lawsuit and fine than all the money he shortchanged his tenants for that entire rental period.
Obviously each case is different.

I asked a lawyer.  If the tenant says leases is over I don't want the unit it's an admission of non residence and the landlord can enter.

Frankly the tenants are idiopathic for not getting their stuff out before they unilaterally break their lease based on some gibberish about a closed border.

Offline Emkay

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #118 on: April 23, 2020, 08:24:56 AM »


It's the fact that 50% of honeymooners not abiding by lease terms and playing games that bothers me.

"86% of all statistics posted on the internet are nonsense"
 
                          ---Abraham Lincoln.

Offline moko

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #119 on: April 23, 2020, 08:25:59 AM »
Landlord are also all greedy? We are not brokers. You sound a bit like AOC...

As I said before our rents are fair for the buildings we are in. We like quick turns and don't wait for people who can pay more. When you are running many units thigs trade at market prices, not at some artificial high one.

I know I am dealing with honeymooners.  Most American couples in Israel are honeymooners.  Middle class honeymooners rent one type of asset, and wealthy honeymooners rent better ones. Rent collection is usually not the issue, people don't set out to steal. It's the fact that 50% of honeymooners not abiding by lease terms and playing games that bothers me.
Seems like the owner of your buildings is specifically marketing to "Honeymooners" and then complaining about it. Seems like a realestate owner I friendly with who got into the lucrative student housing industry and complains non stop how students treat the properties. On that note, he's facing the same issues your facing since all the colleges are closed. Except that legally, the domestic students aren't barred from the city. I davka don't rent to student although I could get higher rents.
Just my observations. Nothing more nothing less