Author Topic: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments  (Read 32140 times)

Online Realshlomo

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #160 on: April 23, 2020, 01:18:43 PM »
It does differ. Rav Shafran is paskening Oneis here and Hamotzih Olov Harayeh. Im an Halachik Jew, I will follow din torah.

So I'm gonna be selling some Ben Barber linen and Bed Bath & Beyond towels and Mckenzies Childs (yoish) stuff for a few Shekels...
Wow

Offline Emkay

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #161 on: April 23, 2020, 02:09:53 PM »
Well my lawyer says otherwise.
You or your lawyer are lying straight through your teeth. (Can also be both, that's not rules out)

Online aygart

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #162 on: April 23, 2020, 02:26:51 PM »
I am trying to figure out how a Roov would tell them they are allowed to store their items in someone else's property for free and that they have a halachic right to both not pay rent and still prevent the landlord from renting the property to someone else.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #163 on: April 23, 2020, 03:16:08 PM »
I am trying to figure out how a Roov would tell them they are allowed to store their items in someone else's property for free and that they have a halachic right to both not pay rent and still prevent the landlord from renting the property to someone else.

Which is why I pointed out to the Mishna in בבא מציעא. No free storage. Storing their items without paying rent is ודבר שאין עושה ואוכל, ימכר, שנאמר (דברים, כב) והשבותו לו, ראה היאך תשיבנו לו.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline SwellCindy

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #164 on: April 23, 2020, 03:17:11 PM »
I am trying to figure out how a Roov would tell them they are allowed to store their items in someone else's property for free and that they have a halachic right to both not pay rent and still prevent the landlord from renting the property to someone else.

+ 1,000

Can't believe how the majority here are at the OP's throat, challenging him with regard to law & halachah, practically implying that he's the one wronging the tenants, & if he deals with this clientele he should suck it up. 

Fact is, these tenants are taking advantage of him, regardless which "class" they're part of.  Seems like most posters here are fine looking away at that, but when it comes to the landlord the law & halacha are quickly invoked.

FWIW, I'm a tenant, & I'd never dream of doing something like this. And no, I don't have the perfect landlord, far from it.  Still, my sense of menchlichkeit & decency dictate my actions, not "well the landlord deserves xxxx".

Stealing is stealing, regardless who the tenant is or whether the landlord has it coming to him. Period.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 03:26:53 PM by SwellCindy »

Offline Baglach

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #165 on: April 23, 2020, 03:35:16 PM »
Who said it's stealing? The situation is tricky but like so many things in life a bit of communicating would go a long way for both. Maybe they can agree a certain amount assuming he anyways can't get new tenants now? But he wouldn't think that way just busy bashing them and how he is so cool selling their towels and linens ( i doubt that's worth more then 1000$) which his rov ( without hearing the other side!!) Said its ok

Offline Emkay

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #166 on: April 23, 2020, 03:39:21 PM »


+ 1,000

Can't believe how the majority here are at the OP's throat, challenging him with regard to law & halachah, practically implying that he's the one wronging the tenants, & if he deals with this clientele he should suck it up. 

Fact is, these tenants are taking advantage of him, regardless which "class" they're part of.  Seems like most posters here are fine looking away at that, but when it comes to the landlord the law & halacha are quickly invoked.

FWIW, I'm a tenant, & I'd never dream of doing something like this. And no, I don't have the perfect landlord, far from it.  Still, my sense of menchlichkeit & decency dictate my actions, not "well the landlord deserves xxxx".

Stealing is stealing, regardless who the tenant is or whether the landlord has it coming to him. Period.

I didn't see anyone here say it's fine for the tenants to mess over and steal from landlord.
He came in here with a bunch of false accusations and generalizations, and with a few made up laws and statements, proceeded to tell us how he would illegally deal with his alleged situation.

If the tenant would have posted something like that, it may have gotten the same reaction.

Offline SwellCindy

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #167 on: April 23, 2020, 03:42:20 PM »
But he wouldn't think that way just busy bashing them and how he is so cool selling their towels and linens

He seemed pretty levelheaded to me, just a frustrated person airing his grievances. I also didn't see where he thinks he's so cool. 

Offline JMHO

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #168 on: April 23, 2020, 03:42:49 PM »
selling their towels and linens ( i doubt that's worth more then 1000$)
Sell or throw out everything... clothing, wedding albums, etc. All the things that will get the young couples attention.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #169 on: April 23, 2020, 03:50:32 PM »
Sell or throw out everything... clothing, wedding albums, etc. All the things that will get the young couples attention.

That is a Halachic question. Selling an asset that is in storage, in order to recover and pay rent that is due for said storage, is one thing. Intentionally discarding an asset that belongs to someone else is another.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline SwellCindy

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #170 on: April 23, 2020, 03:58:29 PM »
when you left you knew the border back was closed

@Baglach, I have a hard time reconciling this as anything but stealing.

Offline Baglach

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #171 on: April 23, 2020, 04:03:33 PM »
@Baglach, I have a hard time reconciling this as anything but stealing.
I never ever said that Tennant's shouldn't be paying there are plenty of poskim who can deal with that, at the end of the day right now they have no way of entering the country, who said it was clear they knew when they left? What's if a couple left in February to have a baby? This should be brought to a Rov/posek on a case by case basis
Just his attitude as if everyone is here on honeymoon when precisely its those honeymooners he is after stinks.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #172 on: April 23, 2020, 04:07:12 PM »
If this was Reddit, I'd vote ESH.

Offline ari3

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #173 on: April 23, 2020, 04:09:14 PM »
+ 1,000

Can't believe how the majority here are at the OP's throat, challenging him with regard to law & halachah, practically implying that he's the one wronging the tenants, & if he deals with this clientele he should suck it up. 

Fact is, these tenants are taking advantage of him, regardless which "class" they're part of.  Seems like most posters here are fine looking away at that, but when it comes to the landlord the law & halacha are quickly invoked.

FWIW, I'm a tenant, & I'd never dream of doing something like this. And no, I don't have the perfect landlord, far from it.  Still, my sense of menchlichkeit & decency dictate my actions, not "well the landlord deserves xxxx".

Stealing is stealing, regardless who the tenant is or whether the landlord has it coming to him. Period.
Noone here condoned the behavior of the tenants.

The OP was criticized for
1) his attitude
2) painting all young couples in e"y in a negative light based on his dealing with a narrow segment of that group
3) alternately stating he is following halacha and law while at the same time stating he is doing things that are against law and halacha

I hope the OP can resolve this in a satisfactory manner within the guidelines of the halacha and the law.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 05:04:35 PM by ari3 »

Offline SwellCindy

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #174 on: April 23, 2020, 04:11:42 PM »
If this was Reddit, I'd vote ESH.

What's ESH?

Online Realshlomo

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #175 on: April 23, 2020, 04:19:59 PM »

Offline SwellCindy

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #176 on: April 23, 2020, 04:31:30 PM »
Noone here condoned the behavior of the tenants.

The OP was criticized for
1) his attitude
2) painting all young couples in e"y in a negative light based on his dealing with a narrow segment of that group
3) alternately stating he is following halacha and law while at the same time stating he is doing things that are against law and halacha

I hope the OP can resolve this in a satisfactory manor within the guidelines of the halacha and the law.

Gotcha. Although I still maintain that the majority here judged the landlord unfairly (but understandably given your clarification), your final sentence is the bottom line.

Offline elya

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #177 on: April 24, 2020, 03:23:07 PM »
Just a DP:
 I know someone who just got a Ishur to go back, regular American couple (Married for about a year), nothing out of the ordinary. (Has Bituach leumi)

Seems @Moishebatchy was correct in that most people aren't even trying.

Offline gotthepoint

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #178 on: April 24, 2020, 03:33:45 PM »
Just a DP:
 I know someone who just got a Ishur to go back, regular American couple (Married for about a year), nothing out of the ordinary. (Has Bituach leumi)

Seems @Moishebatchy was correct in that most people aren't even trying.
and they are going to a hotel for 2 weeks?

Offline elya

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Re: Couples Stuck in USA - Rent on Israeli Apartments
« Reply #179 on: April 24, 2020, 04:43:10 PM »
and they are going to a hotel for 2 weeks?
I believe so.