Author Topic: Can we stop this stupidity?!? Corona IS dangerous to young people.  (Read 16580 times)

Offline Proisrael

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2020, 01:54:34 AM »
Right so that is always been my argument that we don't know enough about this.

The reason I post these articles is that people should read that they're all real concerns and use their head.

Even myself and I am 34 and in prime physical condition (besides for drinking way too much wine)

But I have to keep reminding myself to be cautious once my hand is 15 20 times a day with soap and if I'm out use hand sanitizer and gloves and a mask and everything.

Because we don't know anything about this and it's vastly different than any virus we have ever seen.

A cardiologist of 35 years told me that they don't know why / how covid19 is affecting the heart.

Again if your point is to take it seriously. Showing pictures of countless levayas is real enough to make a point. Bringing up super rare cases is like Al Gore predicting Miami was gonna disappear in 2020.

Offline chevron

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2020, 02:00:46 AM »
You’re right that a small sample size isn’t necessarily a cause for panic, and the article he linked to said as much.

But there is a big difference between a known small danger and a danger which, because of the small sample size to base it on, is not known about yet. You cannot discount the fact that other viruses are dangerous to unborn children, and we have no proof that that’s not the case here. It’s not helpful to fearmonger (verb?) but it’s helpful to point out additional reasons to stay as cautious as possible, even if you think you understand the risks.

Oh I was trying to show from these articles was that there are unknown risks. So they found a couple of instances I don't know how many so far I don't know how many people it affects but how do we know what else we don't know about?

The problem with trying to scare people is that ultimately a lot of the people dying are older Yes there are some younger people with that doesn't really scare people enough.

Personally I think people are more scared if you tell them hey you may recover from covid19  but you are gonna have to poop in a bag your whole life

Offline Proisrael

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2020, 02:10:08 AM »
Or you reach a point where everyone ignores you completely and run the risk of everything falling away.

Offline Denverite

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2020, 02:12:25 AM »
Are you really comparing something that has killed hundreds of Jews and (based on current estimates) kills nearly 1% of everyone infected to climate change?
Wow.

As more antibody tests are being administered, they are seeing that infection rates were so much higher, and hence death rates so much lower. The article below says based on this NY antibody test it’s looking like a 0.6% death rate. Take out the high percentage of deaths only within nursing homes (I read a full 58% of deaths in NY were in nursing homes and in Colorado it’s 64%) and the risk of dying to the average person who doesn’t live in a nursing home is WAY lower than what is hyped.

I’m not at all diminishing the seriousness of the virus, the many vast unknowns of long term affects, and need for caution and good health protocols to limit its spread but the models and predictions we heard even a couple weeks ago were wildly exaggerated.  Numerous times over the last month I’ve thought back to a writing of the Rebbe where he dismissed concerns about carbon dating in calculating the age of the earth because as he so wisely stated it, while we can easily read a piece of information, taking that information to try then to extrapolate a prediction beyond that information (whether it’s a timeline of age, models of climate change, or death predictions from a virus) is extremely difficult.

Here is a link to an article referencing the NY infection and death rates.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/25/coronavirus-models-deal-another-blow-to-faith-of-americans-devine/

Offline chevron

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2020, 02:14:29 AM »
Or you reach a point where everyone ignores you completely and run the risk of everything falling away.

To each their own. I was ignored in February and in March..ignore me again. I'm not running for Congress, I'm just laying out the facts and the dangers

Offline Denverite

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2020, 02:15:54 AM »
To each their own. I was ignored in February and in March..ignore me again. I'm not running for Congress, I'm just laying out the facts and the dangers

You should run for Congress, you’ve got lots off DDF supporters!  :)

Offline Shmobaum

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2020, 02:17:33 AM »
As more antibody tests are being administered, they are seeing that infection rates were so much higher, and hence death rates so much lower. The article below says based on this NY antibody test it’s looking like a 0.6% death rate. Take out the high percentage of deaths only within nursing homes (I read a full 58% of deaths in NY were in nursing homes and in Colorado it’s 64%) and the risk of dying to the average person who doesn’t live in a nursing home is WAY lower than what is hyped.

I’m not at all diminishing the seriousness of the virus, the many vast unknowns of long term affects, and need for caution and good health protocols to limit its spread but the models and predictions we heard even a couple weeks ago were wildly exaggerated.  Numerous times over the last month I’ve thought back to a writing of the Rebbe where he dismissed concerns about carbon dating in calculating the age of the earth because as he so wisely stated it, while we can easily read a piece of information, taking that information to try then to extrapolate a prediction beyond that information (whether it’s a timeline of age, models of climate change, or death predictions from a virus) is extremely difficult.

Here is a link to an article referencing the NY infection and death rates.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/25/coronavirus-models-deal-another-blow-to-faith-of-americans-devine/
Can’t be. The Jewish community in the NYC area was hammered nebech with so many deaths yashem yirachem.

Offline chevron

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2020, 02:25:26 AM »
As more antibody tests are being administered, they are seeing that infection rates were so much higher, and hence death rates so much lower. The article below says based on this NY antibody test it’s looking like a 0.6% death rate. Take out the high percentage of deaths only within nursing homes (I read a full 58% of deaths in NY were in nursing homes and in Colorado it’s 64%) and the risk of dying to the average person who doesn’t live in a nursing home is WAY lower than what is hyped.

I’m not at all diminishing the seriousness of the virus, the many vast unknowns of long term affects, and need for caution and good health protocols to limit its spread but the models and predictions we heard even a couple weeks ago were wildly exaggerated.  Numerous times over the last month I’ve thought back to a writing of the Rebbe where he dismissed concerns about carbon dating in calculating the age of the earth because as he so wisely stated it, while we can easily read a piece of information, taking that information to try then to extrapolate a prediction beyond that information (whether it’s a timeline of age, models of climate change, or death predictions from a virus) is extremely difficult.

Here is a link to an article referencing the NY infection and death rates.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/25/coronavirus-models-deal-another-blow-to-faith-of-americans-devine/

I was thinking the same thing too that the death rates thank God are much lower.

Is it because we are not seeing heavy infestation outside NY?

Or is it because even though many people are being infected even without testing, the death rates are much lower ?

Again you have to remember that a lot of the models about the death rates were based on hospitals being overwhelmed

https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/covid-hospitals

By taking draconian measures I think It's slow down the spread. It allowed the sharing of supplies and shifting of doctors.


Offline Proisrael

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2020, 02:25:32 AM »
Can’t be. The Jewish community in the NYC area was hammered nebech with so many deaths yashem yirachem.

Jewish community has been an anomaly (Specific message from Hashem) but the overall population it is true.

Offline S209

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2020, 02:30:55 AM »
Jewish community has been an anomaly (Specific message from Hashem) but the overall population it is true.
Source that the Jewish community has been an anomaly?
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Online EliJelly

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2020, 02:31:40 AM »
Can’t be. The Jewish community in the NYC area was hammered nebech with so many deaths yashem yirachem.
The infection rate was so much higher here than what you might think. A very small fraction had tested, and a very large majority showed symptoms.
But still that's very bad news, it shows how contagious this virus is.

Offline S209

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2020, 02:35:31 AM »

Here is a link to an article referencing the NY infection and death rates.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/25/coronavirus-models-deal-another-blow-to-faith-of-americans-devine/

What an utter lie. The article claims that we were being told the infection rate is 3.4% in March. That is a LIE. We knew it would be lower, but significantly more deadly than the flu. Based on the antibody studies (which are far from conclusive) the mortality rate is around .8 (8x as deadly as most flus!) and it is MUCH more contagious than the typical flu, resulting in exponentially more deaths.

Here is a link to an editorial  published in late FEBRUARY coauthored by Anthony Fauci where he lays out the probability of the actual death rate being less than 1%

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

He explicitly said mortality is likely closer to the flu than to SARS and similar coronaviruses, but it’s very contagious and we don’t know yet. Looks like he actually underestimated its deadliness.

Believe whatever you want, I know too many dead bodies to discount the danger of this virus
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2020, 02:47:23 AM »
To each their own. I was ignored in February and in March..ignore me again. I'm not running for Congress, I'm just laying out the facts and the dangers

Given the incubation period and the fact that it’s a frum guy who presumably goes to shul it is exceedingly likely that it is already becoming widespread in the frum community as we speak.

And I wrote this on March 3rd and was dismissed until it was unfortunately proven right a couple of weeks later. However, I am beginning to think the pendulum has swung too far and there are clear indications that the frum communities at least in the tri-state area are well on their way to getting over this. New infection stats are a lagging indicator. The Jewish funeral homes going back to normal schedule and the lack of Hatzalah transports are good indicators. We are not out of the wood especially for older folks who have self isolated all this time but the trends are good.

Some will say it’s due to strict social distancing working, but the clear trends across all communities with widely varying adherence or lack thereof to social distancing says that that is clearly not the whole picture.

I think it is time to think about relaxing measures especially for young people as the risk/ reward of health vs economic catastrophe is clearly swinging toward the economic side.

To try to scare to average young person with a one in 10000 statistic and a vague “we don’t know anything about this disease who knows what may come out years from now” is just not going to resonate with them in any case.

Offline Shmobaum

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2020, 02:50:27 AM »
The infection rate was so much higher here than what you might think. A very small fraction had tested, and a very large majority showed symptoms.
But still that's very bad news, it shows how contagious this virus is.
That’s what I said all along with the exponentially high rate of infection in the nyc Jewish area. Just about everyone I spoke to since Purim had symptoms most likely from this virus. But we’ll never know the truth since there was near-zero testing available.
But the general point here is that ppl will read all these articles about the very low death rate and will drop their guard. We can’t drop our guard and live our very interconnected communal lives simultaneously!!

Offline chevron

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2020, 02:55:29 AM »
NYC death rates  11,817.

If That is based on the fact that 20% got it.

If God forbid 40% got it. The death toll wouldn't be 24,000 it would be 48,000 God forbid.

They would have run out of beds, medicine, equipment, health care workers etc.


Offline yuneeq

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2020, 02:57:33 AM »
Ironically, the same people that claimed that corona is not a big deal and isn’t spreading in the US, are the same people saying that corona is all over the place and 99% of the population already got it. Whatever fits the new agenda. Just make sure to keep moving the goal posts.
Visibly Jewish

Offline Dan

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2020, 02:58:21 AM »
Ironically, the same people that claimed that corona is not a big deal and isn’t spreading in the US, are the same people saying that corona is all over the place and 99% of the population already got it. Whatever fits the new agenda. Just make sure to keep moving the goal posts.
So true.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2020, 02:59:14 AM »
NYC death rates  11,817.

If That is based on the fact that 20% got it.

If God forbid 40% got it. The death toll wouldn't be 24,000 it would be 48,000 God forbid.

They would have run out of beds, medicine, equipment, health care workers etc.

NYC death count is at 16,919
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Offline S209

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2020, 03:04:04 AM »
Ironically, the same people that claimed that corona is not a big deal and isn’t spreading in the US, are the same people saying that corona is all over the place and 99% of the population already got it. Whatever fits the new agenda. Just make sure to keep moving the goal posts.
I’ve said this numerous times. It’s ok to have studied the data and made decisions that differ from mine, but everyone I know who’s not taking it seriously now was not taking it seriously ever, just for different reasons that changed throughout, often directly opposite their earlier reason.
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Offline chevron

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Re: Can we stop this stupidity ?!?
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2020, 04:09:16 AM »