Areivim USA - Coronavirus

[yuneeq]

In what scenario is there "a million bucks on the line"? (Aside from someone who lies on their application regarding medical status etc., in which case both organizations likely won't cover).

The guy who has "enough" money. Or the guy that didn't intentionally lie and didn't realize he wouldn't be covered? Or his credit card declined for 1-2 months without his knowledge, and he drops dead. Does his family get paid?

[Chaim723]

The guy who has "enough" money. Or the guy that didn't intentionally lie and didn't realize he wouldn't be covered? Or his credit card declined for 1-2 months without his knowledge, and he drops dead. Does his family get paid?

If you listened to the video of the founder I posted earlier, you'd know the answer to all these questions.
But to answer them here briefly,

 1. If he says he doesn't need the money they don't give it. If he says he needs the money they get it - even if he's the biggest Gvir (see video @ 1h:04).

2. The cancer patient that forgot he had cancer? Or the one wth heart decease that forgot he had open heart surgery. Which one? The questionnaire is very straightforward if you fill out the questionnaire honestly you're good to go, no need to worry.

 3. They don't cancel someone's "plan" before calling and confirming that he no longer wishes to be part of it and pay. Lapsing for a month or 2 wouldn't cancel his eligibility. (Video 1h:03)

[yuneeq]

If you listened to the video of the founder I posted earlier, you'd know the answer to all these questions.

I don't care about the videos. When money is involved, it needs to be in writing. And judging by the fact this thread has 1100 replies and 170k views, there's a glaring lack of written information.

[Chaim723]

I don't care about the videos. When money is involved, it needs to be in writing. .

Did you bother reading the application form before posting?

I'll quote for you:

The Rabbinical Board of Areivim USA has determined that (i) collections will not be undertaken on behalf of survivors of members who were in ill health when they applied for membership, as ill health is defined by the Rabbinical Board.

Accordingly, eligibility for Areivim USA membership is contingent upon the full disclosure of medical conditions and history at the time of application and ALL applicants must complete the “medical history” section of the application and sign that the information provided is true. Applicants with any medical condition may be required to submit documentation and records for review by the Rabbinical Board, which may consult with medical professionals. The Rabbinical Board will determine membership eligibility on a case-by-case basis.

Failure to disclose a medical condition may disqualify the applicant from having a collection undertaken on their behalf. A collection will not be initiated on behalf of any family that did not include disclosure of medical conditions at the time of application.

[Chaim723]

And judging by the fact this thread has 1100 replies and 170k views, there's a glaring lack of written information.

Or a glaring lack of people who didn't read the details IN WRITING before they signed or before posting accusations...

[AsherO]

Question: Do either of them object signing up for both?

They’ll both happily take money and then when the claim comes they’ll each say the other organization should pay.

[AsherO]

Did you bother reading the application form before posting?

I'll quote for you:

The Rabbinical Board of Areivim USA has determined that (i) collections will not be undertaken on behalf of survivors of members who were in ill health when they applied for membership, as ill health is defined by the Rabbinical Board.

Accordingly, eligibility for Areivim USA membership is contingent upon the full disclosure of medical conditions and history at the time of application and ALL applicants must complete the “medical history” section of the application and sign that the information provided is true. Applicants with any medical condition may be required to submit documentation and records for review by the Rabbinical Board, which may consult with medical professionals. The Rabbinical Board will determine membership eligibility on a case-by-case basis.

Failure to disclose a medical condition may disqualify the applicant from having a collection undertaken on their behalf. A collection will not be initiated on behalf of any family that did not include disclosure of medical conditions at the time of application.

Why is a Rabbinical Board (in quotes mind you) reviewing medical underwriting?

[yuneeq]

Or a glaring lack of people who didn't read the details IN WRITING before they signed or before posting accusations...

There are questions one can still ask regarding the medical disclosure.

You may want to stop with your condescending attitude, it’s making you and your employer look bad. Try reading through this thread (or your own responses repeatedly referring to a 90 minute video no one ever watched) to realize Areivim does not address many things on their site, or that their method of ensuring solvency, their group sizes, their overhead, and a lot more info on their site is either inaccurate, missing or misleading.

[Alexsei]

The biggest concern that I have with Areivim and cmiiw is that you can never be assured you'll get the payout untill after the fact, there's no kind of "guaranteed underwriting"  that you can get when you sign up, that you can confirm that you signed up by the rules and will not be questioned later on, they rely on your disclosure, but only after a death occurs CH"V and depending on the cause of death they'll start asking for proof for this and that .

[Baruch]

CMIIW, it seems that Lifeshare is just a Modox Areivim. Does Modox not trust Areivim? Or maybe Areivim's structure that favors large families is not a good fit for Modox which generally have smaller families?

250K does nothing for a family that lost a parent, what's even the point? To have to raise a little less?

[Alexsei]

CMIIW, it seems that Lifeshare is just a Modox Areivim. Does Modox not trust Areivim? Or maybe Areivim's structure that favors large families is not a good fit for Modox which generally have smaller families?

250K does nothing for a family that lost a parent, what's even the point? To have to raise a little less?

If the model works they can add higher tiers, at the same rate of term life insurance... Which will cause only the uninsurable to sign up, which will cause skewed results, which will cause the concept to collapse...

Areivims model at least didn't cap age 65 after which insurance would be relatively expensive.

30 year term 250k coverage for a 35 year old couple in perfect health would cost around $450-500 in total annually

[Baruch]

If the model works they can add higher tiers, at the same rate of term life insurance... Which will cause only the uninsurable to sign up, which will cause skewed results, which will cause the concept to collapse...

Areivims model at least didn't cap age 65 after which insurance would be relatively expensive.

30 year term 250k coverage for a 35 year old couple in perfect health would cost around $450-500 in total annually

Areivim doesn't have to cap at 65, because they give money based on single children. In most households there are none (or very few)  left at 65.

[Alexsei]

Areivim doesn't have to cap at 65, because they give money based on single children. In most households there are none (or very few)  left at 65.

They still give 150k to the surviving spouse?

[Baruch]

They still give 150k to the surviving spouse?

IIRC no, they give 150k for single children under 32, if there are 3 children or more they give an extra 150k.

[Chaim723]

There are questions one can still ask regarding the medical disclosure.

You may want to stop with your condescending attitude, it’s making you and your employer look bad. Try reading through this thread (or your own responses repeatedly referring to a 90 minute video no one ever watched) to realize Areivim does not address many things on their site, or that their method of ensuring solvency, their group sizes, their overhead, and a lot more info on their site is either inaccurate, missing or misleading.

Not sure how my employer got involved, but seems like most of the comments here did not even bother to read the terms and conditions clearly. (And it's ironic that I'm being called condescending, when several people here is hating on a amazing Tzdaka organization that gave tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to Yesomim since their founding. Although it's not shocking, there's haters for everything)

The video was just to disprove some people's "conspiracy theories" that Areivim wouldn't cover in certain situations, when in fact they would.

The terms conditions are pretty clear. If you don't lie on the medical form you're good to go.

And if you're concerned that money is being saved for the next month, it says that in the terms of conditions.

[Chaim723]

The biggest concern that I have with Areivim and cmiiw is that you can never be assured you'll get the payout untill after the fact, there's no kind of "guaranteed underwriting"  that you can get when you sign up, that you can confirm that you signed up by the rules and will not be questioned later on, they rely on your disclosure, but only after a death occurs CH"V and depending on the cause of death they'll start asking for proof for this and that .

Correct, although that's by both organizations. (Which is why I think everyone should have life insurance as well, regardless if you have Areivim or Lifeshare. There's no legal guarantee by both.)

If they'd be doing the medical underwriting in the outset, your "premiums" would be double if not more. They barely have any staff, just a skeleton crew which is volunteers or sponsored by Areivim or which is covered by your $40 annual fee by Lifeshare.

There's no guaranteed underwriting, as they're not legally allowed to. (That would make them be regulated like a regular insurance company)
Besides for the fact then they would need to be insured as well, which again would raise your "premiums".

[AsherO]

If the model works they can add higher tiers, at the same rate of term life insurance... Which will cause only the uninsurable to sign up, which will cause skewed results, which will cause the concept to collapse...

Areivims model at least didn't cap age 65 after which insurance would be relatively expensive.

30 year term 250k coverage for a 35 year old couple in perfect health would cost around $450-500 in total annually

Insurance is capped at those rates and guaranteed. This has weird caveats like no payout if there aren’t enough members (see lifeshare’s T&C) and if there are more claims than they expect your premium goes up beyond the $400-500.

[Alexsei]

If I'm disclosing condition xyz when signing up why can't they ask what they're going to ask in case of a death CH"V right now ?

[yfr bachur]

If I'm disclosing condition xyz when signing up why can't they ask what they're going to ask in case of a death CH"V right now ?

Who says they dont - IF you disclose prior medical history.

[Alexsei]

Who says they dont - IF you disclose prior medical history.

Personal experience