Areivim USA - Coronavirus

[yuneeq]

Not sure how my employer got involved, but seems like most of the comments here did not even bother to read the terms and conditions clearly. (And it's ironic that I'm being called condescending, when several people here is hating on a amazing Tzdaka organization that gave tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to Yesomim since their founding. Although it's not shocking, there's haters for everything)

The video was just to disprove some people's "conspiracy theories" that Areivim wouldn't cover in certain situations, when in fact they would.

The terms conditions are pretty clear. If you don't lie on the medical form you're good to go.

And if you're concerned that money is being saved for the next month, it says that in the terms of conditions.

Instead of rattling your mouth calling everyone haters, read the thread from the top to see many valid questions and concerns that the website did not address.

We get it, you love Areivim and will defend it irrationally. I like them too, and I have been an Areivim member for probably a decade. Yet there is a lot of questions people have about coverage, about how the program works, how it stays solvent, how big are the groups, even after closely reading the T&Cs.

Here's an example of lack of information/misinformation from their website, and only after I emailed did they explain that their groups are set up different than what their FAQ says.

Over the last 24 months Areivim billed the full amount each month. Sometimes they said that a collection would continue into the next month if there were more than 4 eligible children. Which means that there were fewer than 12 deaths per year from their eligible cohort. But this makes me question the fact that they are billing every single month, it’s very convenient that there’s always something to bill for each month. It doesn’t add up. 

And now I decided to look at the last 5 months of collections emails, here’s the amount of eligible children/spouses they were collecting for:

October - 7‬
November - 8‬
December - 6‬
January - 8‬
February - 7‬

That’s a problem. The $42 is only meant to cover 4 orphans/spouses per month. Instead of a max of 20 people that can be covered during those 5 months, Areivim is purporting to cover 36, almost double the amount. The only way this can make sense is if the cohort is 1.8x larger than originally intended and would be at 25,714 people, or if Areivim is not paying out these members in full.

I am having serious doubts about them and would cancel if I cannot get clarity on this.

From the FAQ, it sounds like one cohort with a goal 15,000 and more if possible.
"Although group size is not guaranteed, Areivim USA aims to keep the group size at 15,000 or more."

[Chaim723]

Here's an example of lack of information/misinformation from their website, and only after I emailed did they explain that their groups are set up different than what their FAQ says.

You (and the person you're quoting from) is building up a straw-man, and then knocking it down. Very misleading (at best). See below.

with their pool of approx 25k members (last I heard) x $42 you're at $1,050,000 which is enough for 7 Yesomim or 6 plus spouse.

So the example / issue you're quoting -
October - 7‬
November - 8‬
December - 6‬
January - 8‬
February - 7‬

So these numbers sit squarely within average of 7. Thanks for proving my point.

You left out an important point from the terms and condition: "The collection target of Areivim USA members of $150,000 per orphan or eligible widow/widower is based on a minimum group membership of approximately 15,000."

It is now approx. 25k. Although I'd concede it'd be helpful to keep the website up to date with current numbers, especially for the conspiracy theorist out there.

[yuneeq]

3. They don't cancel someone's "plan" before calling and confirming that he no longer wishes to be part of it and pay. Lapsing for a month or 2 wouldn't cancel his eligibility. (Video 1h:03)

"What happens if a member does not pay the amount due upon the death of a fellow member (i.e. the credit card/bank account information is invalid)?
Areivim USA and the orphans depend on full compliance. The system cannot work if members do not make the expected donations. That is why the membership of any member who has not opted out and does not make timely payments is terminated." Link

How much does Areivim raise and give per orphan?
"Areivim USA on behalf of its members will determine the amount of funds raised and distributed per orphan, based on an evaluation of need, as determined through predetermined criteria."
link

What is that predetermined criteria?

Also, what happens if a person has a condition but doesn't know it yet. They find out 1-2 months after enrolling that they have a condition that was certainly there before they applied. Are they covered, or do they only find out after they die?

[yuneeq]

You (and the person you're quoting from) is building up a straw-man, and then knocking it down. Very misleading (at best). See below.
So the example / issue you're quoting -
October - 7‬
November - 8‬
December - 6‬
January - 8‬
February - 7‬

So these numbers sit squarely within average of 7. Thanks for proving my point.

You left out an important point from the terms and condition: "The collection target of Areivim USA members of $150,000 per orphan or eligible widow/widower is based on a minimum group membership of approximately 15,000."

It is now approx. 25k. Although I'd concede it'd be helpful to keep the website up to date with current numbers, especially for the conspiracy theorist out there.

Of course, only conspiracy theorists would question that the group needs to be nearly double the original intended size to stay solvent. Even though solvency has been an issue during COVID - it's not unfeasible that it can become an issue as the group evolves over time.

Just a suggestion - if you want to promote Areivim, you would do better by easing up on the holier than thou attitude. We are not on different sides but you're responding like everyone is absolutely nuts.

[Chaim723]

"What happens if a member does not pay the amount due upon the death of a fellow member (i.e. the credit card/bank account information is invalid)?
Areivim USA and the orphans depend on full compliance. The system cannot work if members do not make the expected donations. That is why the membership of any member who has not opted out and does not make timely payments is terminated." Link

After a credit card payment is declined, they say they email, call and text until they get through to the member(s). If no response from either spouse for 3 months straight, they'll terminate. (although they are a Chesed / Tzdaka organization. If someone didn't pay because they were in the hospital etc. I highly doubt they would refuse funds... Although I believe they said that never happened (so far))

How much does Areivim raise and give per orphan?...What is that predetermined criteria?

Of the 3 different collections that I'm familiar with that happened, all the kids got the full amount (2 of them at the time was 100k per kid, the 3rd was the new amount of 150k per kid). I understand the terms and conditions are written in a way that limits their obligation / liability with this regard, but that's the nature and purpose of terms and conditions in general. On a practical level though, I'm not concerned (although maybe I would be if I wasn't familiar with these 3 collections, IDK.)

Also, what happens if a person has a condition but doesn't know it yet. They find out 1-2 months after enrolling that they have a condition that was certainly there before they applied. Are they covered, or do they only find out after they die?

You could call and find out if you care to know and you're not clear.

(although I'd imagine the same question could be asked at Lifeshare and possibly Insurance companies in general, not sure.)

[Chaim723]

Of course, only conspiracy theorists would question that the group needs to be nearly double the original intended size to stay solvent.

Isn't that logic flawed? The only reason why they're collecting for on average 7 Yesomim per month is because they are this size (25k+ couples = 50k+). If they were only 15k (30k including spouces) they'd obviously have much less collections.

What am I missing?

[yuneeq]

Isn't that logic flawed? The only reason why they're collecting for on average 7 Yesomim per month is because they are this size (25k+ couples = 50k+). If they were only 15k (30k including spouces) they'd obviously have much less collections.

What am I missing?

There can be many factors to a spike in yesomim, over time people join and people leave, and obviously not everyone's health or age is equal. As the cohort changes, the average death rate or average family size can change as well.

But furthermore - they were averaging 7.2 orphans during those months, while the group a bit smaller than 25k is contributing less than 7 per month. That's a problem that can get worse.

[aygart]

(although I'd imagine the same question could be asked ..... possibly Insurance companies in general, not sure.)

Insurance companies are highly regulated and such scenarios are covered by law and interpreted by courts.

[Chaim723]

they were averaging 7.2 orphans during those months, while the group a bit smaller than 25k is contributing less than 7 per month. That's a problem that can get worse.

I just called Areivim and asked when they reached 25k members, and she said she wasn't sure an exact date, but defiantly more than a year ago and possibly closer to 2.

I just went and checked all the collection emails I got since the pay went up to 150k (May 2023) and here's the amounts of the 16 months total:

May 6
June 6
July 6
August 6
September 7
October 7
November 8
December 6
January 8
Feb 7
March 7
April 7
May 7
June 8
July 5
Aug 7

Average = 6.75

But again, we obviously don't know the exact amounts of anything because there are lots of variables, as has been mentioned earlier. But to say it doesn't add up at all? I just don't see why.