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Areivim USA is a dignified way to give צדקה. It is not Life Insurance and doesn't guarantee any sort of financial protection to its members. it is registered as a religious organization and as such isn't required to incur the additional cost of preparing and filing form 990 with the IRS.

http://www.areivim.info/rform.php

Eb228
Quote
I spoke to Areivim at length as I sell life insurance and wanted to best advise ppl that had Areivim already and wanted to supplement it with LI.
I was told that it has never happened that Areivim declined to pay out based on someones assets or LI. It has happened that the family told them they don't need the money, but they never told the family no.
Simple reasoning is, they also think that 100K per yasom doesn't really cover it, the program just won't allow for a higher payout at $28/ monthly. So they encourage everyone to have LI as well to make sure kids are adequetly covered, and owning LI does not disqualify a payout [unless each kid will receive over a million dollars etc].



Quote
They are tax exempt. Click on the below IRS link and then download the first attachment. Then search "Areivim USA"

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/tax-exempt-organization-search-bulk-data-downloads


This (I have been to a few Areivim meeting with these Rabbonim)

Harav Elya Brudny, Rosh Yeshivas Mir Flatbush;
Harav Yitzchok Isaac Eichenstein, Galanter Rav;
Harav Doniel Geldzahler, Rosh Yeshivas Ohr Yisrael;
Harav Binyomin Zev Landau, Tosher Dayan of Boro Park;
Harav Henoch Shachar, Rav of Klal Ohr Tuvia in Lakewood

Areivim Terms and Conditions (emphasis added):
Quote
4) Areivim USA is not life insurance. Areivim USA has been established primarily as a charitable endeavor and its halachic status is like that of all tzedakah money collected from the public. In the event of a the passing of a member rĒl, all contributions can be made with maaser money.

5) In the event of (G-d forbid) a large number of deaths among members (as a result of a war, an earthquake, etc.), Areivim USA reserves the right to consult with its Rabbinical Board on proper procedures.

6) Members have no rights to sue or submit legal claims against the decisions of Areivim USA or its Rabbinical Board, including for failure to initiate a collection. There are no oral agreements or other commitments between Areivim USA and its members, and no such oral agreements or commitments shall be given any legal effect.

« Last edited by ExGingi on May 30, 2021, 11:11:03 AM »

Poll

Do you have Areivim & Life Insurance? (NOTE: Areivim is not life insurance)

Yes
49 (70%)
Only Areivim
21 (30%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Author Topic: Areivim USA - Coronavirus  (Read 142936 times)

Offline S209

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #260 on: May 03, 2020, 09:00:07 AM »
Iíve been following the poll and it seems that approximately 30% of members who answered only have Areivim, no LI. If those people drop out because premiums are raised, the organization is in very hot water.
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Offline JACKBLUE

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #261 on: May 03, 2020, 09:00:25 AM »
Youíre burning the candles on both ends now.

On the one hand you say Arevim is a supplement to LI and informed Arevim should have LI, OTOH you say at least theyíll have Arevim.
iím sorry if I wasnít clear enough.
1. Make LI, also make Areivim for Tzedaka, (BTW youíll also get a nice payout if Chas VíShulam....
2. If you donít plan on making LI for some reason (which I see unfortunately is a normal thing) at least make Areivim.

Offline JACKBLUE

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #262 on: May 03, 2020, 09:02:19 AM »
Iíve been following the poll and it seems that approximately 30% of members who answered only have Areivim, no LI. If those people drop out because premiums are raised, the organization is in very hot water.
Premiums arenít going up. They wonít charge a penny more then $28 max a month.
Obviously some people are willing to pay now $400 to be able to collect the money faster.

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #263 on: May 03, 2020, 09:04:06 AM »
Exactly it CAN, but unfortunately weíre seeing so many without LI so at least have Areivim.

So here's a question, and maybe @aygart  has some insight on this. Between the money paid into Areivim and the millions collected on a regular basis at parlor meetings, why doesn't someone pool this money and use it to buy term life insurance for everyone? It could still be considered tzedaka since you're subsidizing other people's policies, and would probably be more cost-effective in terms of returned value. It wouldn't completely replace individual LI, as people can have additional policies to fit their needs (which doesn't change from the current model). There would also be a huge increase in participation. I know I'd be willing to pay a little more for an additional term plan, especially if I knew this would be helping so many others get LI.
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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #264 on: May 03, 2020, 09:08:54 AM »
So here's a question, and maybe @aygart  has some insight on this. Between the money paid into Areivim and the millions collected on a regular basis at parlor meetings, why doesn't someone pool this money and use it to buy term life insurance for everyone? It could still be considered tzedaka since you're subsidizing other people's policies, and would probably be more cost-effective in terms of returned value. It wouldn't completely replace individual LI, as people can have additional policies to fit their needs (which doesn't change from the current model). There would also be a huge increase in participation. I know I'd be willing to pay a little more for an additional term plan, especially if I knew this would be helping so many others get LI.
Wouldnít term insurance for everyone be much more expensive? Especially insuring both spouses? Especially considering the amount of uninsurable?
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Offline mgarfin

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #265 on: May 03, 2020, 09:09:04 AM »
So here's a question, and maybe @aygart  has some insight on this. Between the money paid into Areivim and the millions collected on a regular basis at parlor meetings, why doesn't someone pool this money and use it to buy term life insurance for everyone? It could still be considered tzedaka since you're subsidizing other people's policies, and would probably be more cost-effective in terms of returned value. It wouldn't completely replace individual LI, as people can have additional policies to fit their needs (which doesn't change from the current model). There would also be a huge increase in participation. I know I'd be willing to pay a little more for an additional term plan, especially if I knew this would be helping so many others get LI.

No way to make this work

Offline JACKBLUE

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #266 on: May 03, 2020, 09:10:04 AM »
So here's a question, and maybe @aygart  has some insight on this. Between the money paid into Areivim and the millions collected on a regular basis at parlor meetings, why doesn't someone pool this money and use it to buy term life insurance for everyone? It could still be considered tzedaka since you're subsidizing other people's policies, and would probably be more cost-effective in terms of returned value. It wouldn't completely replace individual LI, as people can have additional policies to fit their needs (which doesn't change from the current model). There would also be a huge increase in participation. I know I'd be willing to pay a little more for an additional term plan, especially if I knew this would be helping so many others get LI.
Fair point, but the odds this should happen is very high.

Beside here are some things Areivim has over LI
1. LI is only for healthy people, Areivim is for also for people with conditions.
2. LI is only for 1 person, Areivim is for both, the husband and wife.
3. For a 45 year old with 10 kids unmarried, he can still get Areivim which would be $1.1M coverage, and LI would cost him way more.

Offline S209

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #267 on: May 03, 2020, 09:10:26 AM »
Premiums arenít going up. They wonít charge a penny more then $28 max a month.
Obviously some people are willing to pay now $400 to be able to collect the money faster.
Then how will they stay solvent long term? They donít have enough leeway to collect this money along with their other collections at this price point for the foreseeable future.
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Offline mgarfin

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #268 on: May 03, 2020, 09:11:29 AM »
One thing I find also very interesting

People tend to buy life insurance only for father not mother.
They underestimate the burden of losing a mother, even if she's not bringing in a income, on a family

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #269 on: May 03, 2020, 09:11:38 AM »
Then how will they stay solvent long term? They donít have enough leeway to collect this money along with their other collections at this price point for the foreseeable future.
They do it will just take 3 years, which I donít see as a problem because the money is anyway made to put away for marrying of the child.

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #270 on: May 03, 2020, 09:12:23 AM »
Fair point, but the odds this should happen is very high.

Beside here are some things Areivim has over LI
1. LI is only for healthy people, Areivim is for also for people with conditions.
2. LI is only for 1 person, Areivim is for both, the husband and wife.
3. For a 45 year old with 10 kids unmarried, he can still get Areivim which would be $1.1M coverage, and LI would cost him way more.
I think this is precisely the point, if all of these facts are true then itís inevitable that they will eventually go bankrupt.. thereís a reason itís more expensive when actuaries are deciding price points. Contrary to what you think, the administrative expenses of insurance policies are not the bulk of your payments.
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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #271 on: May 03, 2020, 09:12:50 AM »
Wouldnít term insurance for everyone be much more expensive? Especially insuring both spouses? Especially considering the amount of uninsurable?

It would definitely be more than $28/mo. I think $50-60/mo plus the millions that are raised in the parlor meetings may cover it. Haven't even begun to do the math, it just seems a little more financially viable than the current Areivim model.
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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #272 on: May 03, 2020, 09:13:38 AM »
They do it will just take 3 years, which I donít see as a problem because the money is anyway made to put away for marrying of the child.
During which time more people will be dying. How will they cover those? The next few years? How do you spell PONZI SCHEME?

You canít keep kicking the can down the road, and you canít raise the premiums. Which leads to the uncomfortable fact that the best options are those I listed above (unless you have a better suggestion)- give the families less, fundraise privately, offer members to voluntarily contribute extra, or some combination thereof.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #273 on: May 03, 2020, 09:16:04 AM »
So here's a question, and maybe @aygart  has some insight on this. Between the money paid into Areivim and the millions collected on a regular basis at parlor meetings, why doesn't someone pool this money and use it to buy term life insurance for everyone? It could still be considered tzedaka since you're subsidizing other people's policies, and would probably be more cost-effective in terms of returned value. It wouldn't completely replace individual LI, as people can have additional policies to fit their needs (which doesn't change from the current model). There would also be a huge increase in participation. I know I'd be willing to pay a little more for an additional term plan, especially if I knew this would be helping so many others get LI.
It would definitely be more than $28/mo. I think $50-60/mo plus the millions that are raised in the parlor meetings may cover it. Haven't even begun to do the math, it just seems a little more financially viable than the current Areivim model.
I don't know the numbers, but I can't imagine you'll get more for your money by buying LI for everyone. Besides for the risk of payout, LI has many more related expenses (overhead, paying agents, etc.)and profit which areivim and campaigns don't have.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #274 on: May 03, 2020, 09:17:06 AM »
They do it will just take 3 years, which I donít see as a problem because the money is anyway made to put away for marrying of the child.

That can't be as there will probably be regular deaths unfortunately throughout the 3 years

Contrary to what you think, the administrative expenses of insurance policies are not the bulk of your payments.

Profit is a big fact in a life insurance company contrary to an organization

I see Areivim similar to a health share.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #275 on: May 03, 2020, 09:17:11 AM »
iím sorry if I wasnít clear enough.
1. Make LI, also make Areivim for Tzedaka, (BTW youíll also get a nice payout if Chas VíShulam....

You keep citing Tzedakah as if itís somehow a counter-argument to my contention that Arevim is unsustainable.

Fair point, but the odds this should happen is very high.

Beside here are some things Areivim has over LI
1. LI is only for healthy people, Areivim is for also for people with conditions.
2. LI is only for 1 person, Areivim is for both, the husband and wife.
3. For a 45 year old with 10 kids unmarried, he can still get Areivim which would be $1.1M coverage, and LI would cost him way more.

Those three are all reasons Arevim is unsustainable. LI costs many multiple times $28/month for the same level of coverage. The life insurance companies are profitable, but they also invest better than Arevim (who seems to raise the funds as-hoc), potentially more efficient on scale, and their profits are a relatively percentage of their revenues/investment profits.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #276 on: May 03, 2020, 09:22:33 AM »
You keep citing Tzedakah as if itís somehow a counter-argument to my contention that Arevim is unsustainable.

Those three are all reasons Arevim is unsustainable. LI costs many multiple times $28/month for the same level of coverage. The life insurance companies are profitable, but they also invest better than Arevim (who seems to raise the funds as-hoc), potentially more efficient on scale, and their profits are a relatively percentage of their revenues/investment profits.


It's tzdakah as it does not differentiate by the payout you may get

It may not be sustainable at $28 but still can be cheaper than LI for many. Similar to health share

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #277 on: May 03, 2020, 09:24:01 AM »
During which time more people will be dying. How will they cover those? The next few years? How do you spell PONZI SCHEME?

You canít keep kicking the can down the road, and you canít raise the premiums. Which leads to the uncomfortable fact that the best options are those I listed above (unless you have a better suggestion)- give the families less, fundraise privately, offer members to voluntarily contribute extra, or some combination thereof.
Over the past 3 years, how much did they actually collect from each member? Assuming the rate of collections continues to be the same as it was before coronavirus with coronavirus being the outlier, anything less than $28/month will be able to be used to catch up. For example if instead of collecting $336/year  they collected $280 that means they have an average of $56/year leeway, at that rate in 4 years they will be fully caught up.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #278 on: May 03, 2020, 09:26:14 AM »
Fair point, but the odds this should happen is very high.

Beside here are some things Areivim has over LI
1. LI is only for healthy people, Areivim is for also for people with conditions.
2. LI is only for 1 person, Areivim is for both, the husband and wife.
3. For a 45 year old with 10 kids unmarried, he can still get Areivim which would be $1.1M coverage, and LI would cost him way more.
-1.
You have to sign that both the husband and the wife are in complete health. People may unfortunately lie, but I'm sure it dissuades the majority of people with conditions from signing up falsely.

Offline keepsmiling123

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #279 on: May 03, 2020, 09:29:01 AM »
You keep citing Tzedakah as if itís somehow a counter-argument to my contention that Arevim is unsustainable.

Those three are all reasons Arevim is unsustainable. LI costs many multiple times $28/month for the same level of coverage.

Depends on health and how early you buy in...also many employers give term life with options to buy supplemental at pretty low rates.