Areivim USA - Coronavirus

[avromie7]

Random Question: Did Areivim charge all it members when he died? if yes, what happened to that money?

I'm not sure why this is a question. Either they they figured this out before they charged everyone or they used the funds for the next family.

[Fish Tank]

I just came across this thread. I didn't read through the full thread yet.

I tried to signup for Areivim in April 2020, and they replied that they aren't taking new members.

Does anyone if they are taking members again  ?

[yuneeq]

Random Question: Did Areivim charge all it members when he died? if yes, what happened to that money?

According to the terms they don't charge members until after they determine eligibility. It also seems to be implied that if someone dies with money they may decide to collect only what's needed or nothing at all if the person is rich.

[JACKBLUE]

I just came across this thread. I didn't read through the full thread yet.

I tried to signup for Areivim in April 2020, and they replied that they aren't taking new members.

Does anyone if they are taking members again  ?

Yes. But you might wanto check with all the bashers in this thread if you should

[JACKBLUE]

I personally know of a family of 8 who areivim denied funds for them because they claimed that when he signed up he had some condition on his records (you have to sign that your healthy) of which statistics show that it could lead to cancer which he eventually got and fully recovered and then died from something else. I respect the decision made by areivims rabbi (big professional in medical). but the issue is that this yingerman had peace of mind knowing that he has some sort of Insurance, VS real LI where if they accept you by blood test means they cant screw you later on. (Check out the online application.)

Can you PM me some details on this story? and i'll try to confirm.

P.S. I PM'ed 1 of the bashers that posted that he knows for a fact that Areivim has never given a payout for some sort of proof or where he takes that info from and he has yet to reply............ (the answer is that he doesn't have what to answer because i can put him on the line with 5 families that i personally know to confirm they got their payout)

[AsherO]

It’s actually really simple and covered in their terms

“20) The full collection of $100,000 per orphan is based on the membership of approximately 14,500 families which constitutes the group. In the event that a member’s death occurs before the group is complete, the collection total will be adjusted downward accordingly.“

But from those 14,500 families, how many claims do they expect to cover? There are quite a few variables to factor and lack of transparency makes it hard to know what those are, but here are some numbers to start with, I think my estimates are conservative:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_BtAOeYUtRZHNK9QTllDgm0LWogGDvRab7HF0i1ttY4/edit?usp=sharing

What haven't I factored and where do you think my estimates are off? If only 20% of donors are in for Tzedakah only and not 40%, then the monthly amount needed would double, for instance.

[aygart]

Yes. But you might wanto check with all the bashers in this thread if you should

I have been supportive of the organization as a tzedaka, but the case mentioned by @tov hashem is a great illustration of the folly in relying on it to replace LI and that is how it is marketed despite all disclaimers in fine print. This is even worse when there are no clear standards (at least viewable to the public) discussing what they will consider to be a prior condition. If someone was insurable then why would they get denied? Will they reject a claim from someone overweight? High blood pressure? Cholesterol?

[JACKBLUE]

I have been supportive of the organization as a tzedaka, but the case mentioned by @tov hashem is a great illustration of the folly in relying on it to replace LI and that is how it is marketed despite all disclaimers in fine print. This is even worse when there are no clear standards (at least viewable to the public) discussing what they will consider to be a prior condition. If someone was insurable then why would they get denied? Will they reject a claim from someone overweight? High blood pressure? Cholesterol?

i can't answer your questions because i don't know, but i know someone that called and asked if his wife diabetic if she's eligible and they said that she is.....

[aygart]

i can't answer your questions because i don't know, but i know someone that called and asked if his wife diabetic if she's eligible and they said that she is.....

Now THAT raises question about viability. There is a reason why diabetics have much higher premiums for LI if they can get insured at all.

[ExGingi]

Now THAT raises question about viability. There is a reason why diabetics have much higher premiums for LI if they can get insured at all.

-.5

The concern would be if they wouldn't at the very least inquire about the a1c.

That being said life insurance might cover for lifetime, while Areivim only pays out if there are unmarried children IINM. So think about pricing the risk compared to a non-convertible term policy that covers only until a certain age.

[JACKBLUE]

Looking thru the posts from exactly a year ago........ the same few people posting all the same posts.... can we get 1 DDF'er to call them and get the facts out??
@ExGingi @aygart @AsherO

[yuneeq]

I have been supportive of the organization as a tzedaka, but the case mentioned by @tov hashem is a great illustration of the folly in relying on it to replace LI and that is how it is marketed despite all disclaimers in fine print. This is even worse when there are no clear standards (at least viewable to the public) discussing what they will consider to be a prior condition. If someone was insurable then why would they get denied? Will they reject a claim from someone overweight? High blood pressure? Cholesterol?

1. I don't see it marketed as LI
2. Look at the sign up page again. The checkbox in the form asking about prior conditions is not "fine print".

[aygart]

1. I don't see it marketed as LI
2. Look at the sign up page again. The checkbox in the form asking about prior conditions is not "fine print".

It most definitely is marketed in a way that a very high percentage of members consider it to be a replacement for LI (not LI itself)
I did not write anything about the question about prior conditions being in fine print. You may want to re-read my comment.

[ExGingi]

I have been supportive of the organization as a tzedaka, but the case mentioned by @tov hashem is a great illustration of the folly in relying on it to replace LI and that is how it is marketed despite all disclaimers in fine print. This is even worse when there are no clear standards (at least viewable to the public) discussing what they will consider to be a prior condition. If someone was insurable then why would they get denied? Will they reject a claim from someone overweight? High blood pressure? Cholesterol?

I'm not sure why Areivim wouldn't require as a condition for membership proof of in-force underwritten life-insurance. That way they could have an idea about the risk while not needing to set up a costly underwriting operation. It would then make sense for many to get a small ($100k to $250k) overfunded WL policy as foundational coverage, and participate with Areivim just in case they can't provide for their survivors on their own.

[AsherO]

i can't answer your questions because i don't know, but i know someone that called and asked if his wife diabetic if she's eligible and they said that she is.....

You can't have it both ways. Either they accept risks and you get adverse selection, or they don't and your claim about the diabetic wife is wrong.

[AsherO]

Looking thru the posts from exactly a year ago........ the same few people posting all the same posts.... can we get 1 DDF'er to call them and get the facts out??
@ExGingi @aygart @AsherO

Why can't the publish facts on their website?

[PlatinumGuy]

I'm not sure why Areivim wouldn't require as a condition for membership proof of in-force underwritten life-insurance. That way they could have an idea about the risk while not needing to set up a costly underwriting operation. It would then make sense for many to get a small ($100k to $250k) overfunded WL policy as foundational coverage, and participate with Areivim just in case they can't provide for their survivors on their own.

What's the point of the whole program if you can just buy standard LI to provide the same coverage?

[yuneeq]

It most definitely is marketed in a way that a very high percentage of members consider it to be a replacement for LI (not LI itself)
I did not write anything about the question about prior conditions being in fine print. You may want to re-read my comment.

You don't have to read the fine print to understand that Areivim not a replacement for life insurance. And I don't blame Areivim for members that convince themselves that it's just like LI. The only people that think that way are people that are too cheap to pay for LI so they get Arevim as the next best thing. They know exactly what they're getting into.

[aygart]

You don't have to read the fine print to understand that Areivim not a replacement for life insurance. And I don't blame Areivim for members that convince themselves that it's just like LI. The only people that think that way are people that are too cheap to pay for LI so they get Arevim as the next best thing. They know exactly what they're getting into.

It is marketed as a way of being responsible for one's family.

[ExGingi]

What's the point of the whole program if you can just buy standard LI to provide the same coverage?

I'm not familiar with any Life Insurance plan designed like this:

And think about a family with 8 to 14 unmarried kids. To potentially provide $100k for each there would be a need for $1MM or more of life insurance. Said person isn't planning on dying, but has tight cash-flow and needs to save during lifetime. Buying an overfunded WL might be a prudent and efficient way to build up cash value that can be used during lifetime (term would be a pure expense, and only provide a benefit at death). That small policy would be insufficient to protect the family. Areivim could supplement if there's a shortfall (I am obviously not promoting Areivim as a replacement or even supplement to Life Insurance, just pointing out what some might consider a reasonable approach).