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One line summary:
Areivim USA is a dignified way to give צדקה. It is not Life Insurance and doesn't guarantee any sort of financial protection to its members. it is registered as a religious organization and as such isn't required to incur the additional cost of preparing and filing form 990 with the IRS.

http://www.areivim.info/rform.php

Eb228
Quote
I spoke to Areivim at length as I sell life insurance and wanted to best advise ppl that had Areivim already and wanted to supplement it with LI.
I was told that it has never happened that Areivim declined to pay out based on someones assets or LI. It has happened that the family told them they don't need the money, but they never told the family no.
Simple reasoning is, they also think that 100K per yasom doesn't really cover it, the program just won't allow for a higher payout at $28/ monthly. So they encourage everyone to have LI as well to make sure kids are adequetly covered, and owning LI does not disqualify a payout [unless each kid will receive over a million dollars etc].



Quote
They are tax exempt. Click on the below IRS link and then download the first attachment. Then search "Areivim USA"

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/tax-exempt-organization-search-bulk-data-downloads


This (I have been to a few Areivim meeting with these Rabbonim)

Harav Elya Brudny, Rosh Yeshivas Mir Flatbush;
Harav Yitzchok Isaac Eichenstein, Galanter Rav;
Harav Doniel Geldzahler, Rosh Yeshivas Ohr Yisrael;
Harav Binyomin Zev Landau, Tosher Dayan of Boro Park;
Harav Henoch Shachar, Rav of Klal Ohr Tuvia in Lakewood

Areivim Terms and Conditions (emphasis added):
Quote
4) Areivim USA is not life insurance. Areivim USA has been established primarily as a charitable endeavor and its halachic status is like that of all tzedakah money collected from the public. In the event of a the passing of a member rĒl, all contributions can be made with maaser money.

5) In the event of (G-d forbid) a large number of deaths among members (as a result of a war, an earthquake, etc.), Areivim USA reserves the right to consult with its Rabbinical Board on proper procedures.

6) Members have no rights to sue or submit legal claims against the decisions of Areivim USA or its Rabbinical Board, including for failure to initiate a collection. There are no oral agreements or other commitments between Areivim USA and its members, and no such oral agreements or commitments shall be given any legal effect.

« Last edited by ExGingi on May 30, 2021, 11:11:03 AM »

Poll

Do you have Areivim & Life Insurance? (NOTE: Areivim is not life insurance)

Yes
49 (70%)
Only Areivim
21 (30%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Author Topic: Areivim USA - Coronavirus  (Read 150853 times)

Online YitzyS

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #720 on: May 30, 2021, 04:18:57 PM »
If you want that poll up youíre welcome to start your own. If you want to change the poll in the OP, youíre welcome to contact to the OP and ask him to make those changes, because I donít see a mod doing it for you.
@Chapshnell

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #721 on: May 30, 2021, 04:57:07 PM »
If you want that poll up youíre welcome to start your own. If you want to change the poll in the OP, youíre welcome to contact to the OP and ask him to make those changes, because I donít see a mod doing it for you.

I have no idea how to do any of those.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #722 on: May 30, 2021, 04:59:50 PM »
Yes. That leads members to believe that there are areivim guaranteeing money to yesomim and that they can rely on that guarantee. I think it is a great tzedaka but that their marketing should be changed.

How do the T&C of Areivim USA differ from http://areivim.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%A1-%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%99%D7%9D%D7%91%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%AA.pdf
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 05:04:13 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #724 on: May 30, 2021, 05:10:55 PM »
The American one doesn't ask קבעת עיתים לתורה

Is that the only difference?

Is that a question for the parent or the child?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline aygart

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #725 on: May 30, 2021, 05:13:22 PM »
Is that the only difference?

Is that a question for the parent or the child?
TLDR
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #726 on: May 30, 2021, 05:16:10 PM »
How do the T&C of Areivim USA differ from http://areivim.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%A1-%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%99%D7%9D%D7%91%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%AA.pdf

@AsherO did you bother to do back-of-the-napkin math on the Israeli version? Do you find theirs more palatable? If yes, where's the difference?

The Israeli version has been around much longer and is CLEARLY a subdivision of Kupas Ha'Ir (IINM - or is that disclaimer a contradiction to stating that something is CLEAR?).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #727 on: May 30, 2021, 05:34:59 PM »
Im a member since Jan 31, 2013 and never thought I signed up to LI

I signed up 3/2015 and was never under the impression that itís LI. And I was in a stage where I didnít really understand the value of purchasing LI, I was too cheap to purchase. I signed up as a replacement for insurance, better than having nothing until someone explains to me why I need LI.
Visibly Jewish

Offline S209

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #728 on: May 30, 2021, 05:41:27 PM »
I signed up as a replacement for insurance, better than having nothing until someone explains to me why I need LI.
Isnít this the issue?
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #729 on: May 30, 2021, 05:42:32 PM »
Do you want just the date or the time as well? Maybe a full description of whom Iíve had it with and a verbatim transcript of what they said. I got a certain impression, and Iím not going to walk away from it because you said I should.

You are criticizing the org today. If you believe the problem exists today, then the onus is on you to prove it. And none of this corny nonsense how the name Areivim implies insurance. Look over the website and tell me how many times you have to trip over yourself to be convinced that itís life insurance.

Also looking back at the first collection email Iíve ever received in 2015

ďDear Mr.,
 
It is with great pain that we notify you of the recent untimely Petirah of two members of Areivim USA. In Williamsburg a young mother was niftar leaving behind 6 young unmarried orphans r"l. In Monsey a member was niftar r"l, leaving behind 1 unmarried child.

Therefore Areivim USA members are requested to donate in the months of May and June.  The credit cards and bank accounts of members will be debited for the month of May IyĒh on or about Monday, May 11th, 2015.
 
Your card/account ending in xxxx, will be debited in the amount of $28 on othe above date.
 
Please make sure this card/account is still valid. In the case it is not  valid, or you would like to change the payment method, please contact us no later than Sunday May 10th with the correct information.
 
If you do not wish to donate, please call us by Sunday May 10th, or we will assume that you want us to charge the account we have on file for the above amount.

In the zechus of of supporting almonos & yesomim in a respectful and discreet manner, may we all be spared any sorrow and may our services speedily become obsolete.Ē

Theyíve been sending these emails at least 6 years now. Anyone that reads this email and thinks that Areivim is life insurance is not worth worrying about.
Visibly Jewish

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #730 on: May 30, 2021, 05:43:50 PM »
Isnít this the issue?

No. I knew it wasnít life insurance and I didnít care for it. When I learned more about life insurance j signed up for it and kept Areivim.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #731 on: May 30, 2021, 05:49:45 PM »
Is that the only difference?

Iíve seen a few more differences, in the Israeli version:
1. There is no stipulation that it isnít life insurance
2. They have a two-tier system, the base tier is ILS200k per recipient and an additional tier for ILS400k total per per recipient
3. In the event there is life insurance coverage, it will decrease the amount of the Areivim coverage accordingly, so if thereís 200k of LI coverage per beneficiary in the base tier the family gets nothing
4. I was skimming but I didnít see where they count the surviving spouse with 3 or more beneficiaries
5. In the event the burden to marry off an orphan does not fall on the widow/widower, the fund is forfeited and goes to a different orphan from another claim
6. Iím not sure the Israeli version covers both spouses equally

I was skimming but thatís what I saw so far
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #732 on: May 30, 2021, 05:52:45 PM »
Iíve seen a few more differences, in the Israeli version:
1. There is no stipulation that it isnít life insurance
2. They have a two-tier system, the base tier is ILS200k per recipient and an additional tier for ILS400k total per per recipient
3. In the event there is life insurance coverage, it will decrease the amount of the Areivim coverage accordingly, so if thereís 200k of LI coverage per beneficiary in the base tier the family gets nothing
4. I was skimming but I didnít see where they count the surviving spouse with 3 or more beneficiaries
5. In the event the burden to marry off an orphan does not fall on the widow/widower, the fund is forfeited and goes to a different orphan from another claim
6. Iím not sure the Israeli version covers both spouses equally

I was skimming but thatís what I saw so far

And do any of the above make you more OK with it or less OK?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline AsherO

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #733 on: May 30, 2021, 05:53:31 PM »
You are criticizing the org today. If you believe the problem exists today, then the onus is on you to prove it. And none of this corny nonsense how the name Areivim implies insurance. Look over the website and tell me how many times you have to trip over yourself to be convinced that itís life insurance.

Also looking back at the first collection email Iíve ever received in 2015

ďDear Mr.,
 
It is with great pain that we notify you of the recent untimely Petirah of two members of Areivim USA. In Williamsburg a young mother was niftar leaving behind 6 young unmarried orphans r"l. In Monsey a member was niftar r"l, leaving behind 1 unmarried child.

Therefore Areivim USA members are requested to donate in the months of May and June.  The credit cards and bank accounts of members will be debited for the month of May IyĒh on or about Monday, May 11th, 2015.
 
Your card/account ending in xxxx, will be debited in the amount of $28 on othe above date.
 
Please make sure this card/account is still valid. In the case it is not  valid, or you would like to change the payment method, please contact us no later than Sunday May 10th with the correct information.
 
If you do not wish to donate, please call us by Sunday May 10th, or we will assume that you want us to charge the account we have on file for the above amount.

In the zechus of of supporting almonos & yesomim in a respectful and discreet manner, may we all be spared any sorrow and may our services speedily become obsolete.Ē

Theyíve been sending these emails at least 6 years now. Anyone that reads this email and thinks that Areivim is life insurance is not worth worrying about.

I wonder how often someone can decline to donate before they decide not to honor their claim. Is that also in the terms or is it something they decide retroactively on a whim.

Insurance is highly regulated and that protects the consumer. Iím not taking the position that regulation is necessarily appropriate, but it does serve a purpose. Here it seems ones family is at the mercy of the board that makes decisions once itís already too late for them to advocate on their familyís behalf...

Once again to be clear, Iím not suggesting itís insurance. Iím just contrasting and it seems very risky on many levels.
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #734 on: May 30, 2021, 05:55:12 PM »
I wonder how often someone can decline to donate before they decide not to honor their claim. Is that also in the terms or is it something they decide retroactively on a whim.

Insurance is highly regulated and that protects the consumer. Iím not taking the position that regulation is necessarily appropriate, but it does serve a purpose. Here it seems ones family is at the mercy of the board that makes decisions once itís already too late for them to advocate on their familyís behalf...

Once again to be clear, Iím not suggesting itís insurance. Iím just contrasting and it seems very risky on many levels.
Who cares

You keep on going in circles

This a charity not insurance and not LI
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #735 on: May 30, 2021, 05:56:50 PM »
And do any of the above make you more OK with it or less OK?

Iím not going to give it any thought. Iím not a resident of Israel so the Israeli program isnít relevant to me.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #736 on: May 30, 2021, 05:57:59 PM »
Who cares

You keep on going in circles

This a charity not insurance and not LI

You clearly care enough to respond to me. If everyone who signs up believes itís charity and not insurance then Iím all for it. You believe that is the case, I donít. Neither of us have objective proof of what anyone else believes, you have their stated terms, I have a personal experience. I donít see any circles other than the fact that people are telling me Iím not entitled to skepticism because itís a charity.
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #737 on: May 30, 2021, 05:59:31 PM »
You clearly care enough to respond to me.
1St I thought you have legitimate concerns (so I was willing to take it up with the board, hence
Could you please summarize your concerns? I'll do my best to get you the answers bl'n
), now I see that you have a mindset and nothing would help it

Not one charity is perfect, and it will never be, but we do need them around
Every cause has its heart, and every heart has its cause
Some causes don't talk to me, I move on, next there is no need to get nitty gritty with your skepticism

Barber anyone?

Its a chesed hashem that everyone feels for different things, imagine if everyone would be warm for mosdos and not for yesomem or vice versa, we need every heart for every cause

//
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 06:05:40 PM by yesitsme »
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #738 on: May 30, 2021, 06:01:34 PM »
I wonder how often someone can decline to donate before they decide not to honor their claim. Is that also in the terms or is it something they decide retroactively on a whim.

If I understand correctly once you decline you are no longer a member.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline AsherO

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #739 on: May 30, 2021, 06:03:26 PM »
If I understand correctly once you decline you are no longer a member.

So much for calling it a ďrequestĒ. But itís Tzedakah so letís give them a free pass.
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