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Areivim USA is a dignified way to give צדקה. It is not Life Insurance and doesn't guarantee any sort of financial protection to its members. it is registered as a religious organization and as such isn't required to incur the additional cost of preparing and filing form 990 with the IRS.

http://www.areivim.info/rform.php

Eb228
Quote
I spoke to Areivim at length as I sell life insurance and wanted to best advise ppl that had Areivim already and wanted to supplement it with LI.
I was told that it has never happened that Areivim declined to pay out based on someones assets or LI. It has happened that the family told them they don't need the money, but they never told the family no.
Simple reasoning is, they also think that 100K per yasom doesn't really cover it, the program just won't allow for a higher payout at $28/ monthly. So they encourage everyone to have LI as well to make sure kids are adequetly covered, and owning LI does not disqualify a payout [unless each kid will receive over a million dollars etc].



Quote
They are tax exempt. Click on the below IRS link and then download the first attachment. Then search "Areivim USA"

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/tax-exempt-organization-search-bulk-data-downloads


This (I have been to a few Areivim meeting with these Rabbonim)

Harav Elya Brudny, Rosh Yeshivas Mir Flatbush;
Harav Yitzchok Isaac Eichenstein, Galanter Rav;
Harav Doniel Geldzahler, Rosh Yeshivas Ohr Yisrael;
Harav Binyomin Zev Landau, Tosher Dayan of Boro Park;
Harav Henoch Shachar, Rav of Klal Ohr Tuvia in Lakewood

Areivim Terms and Conditions (emphasis added):
Quote
4) Areivim USA is not life insurance. Areivim USA has been established primarily as a charitable endeavor and its halachic status is like that of all tzedakah money collected from the public. In the event of a the passing of a member rl, all contributions can be made with maaser money.

5) In the event of (G-d forbid) a large number of deaths among members (as a result of a war, an earthquake, etc.), Areivim USA reserves the right to consult with its Rabbinical Board on proper procedures.

6) Members have no rights to sue or submit legal claims against the decisions of Areivim USA or its Rabbinical Board, including for failure to initiate a collection. There are no oral agreements or other commitments between Areivim USA and its members, and no such oral agreements or commitments shall be given any legal effect.

« Last edited by ExGingi on May 30, 2021, 11:11:03 AM »

Poll

Do you have Areivim & Life Insurance? (NOTE: Areivim is not life insurance)

Yes
33 (67.3%)
Only Areivim
16 (32.7%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Areivim USA - Coronavirus  (Read 39239 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #80 on: May 01, 2020, 10:30:40 AM »
they naively think they are helping some people. 

Why aren't they helping people?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #81 on: May 01, 2020, 10:32:34 AM »
As I understand it, they pay 100k for each unmarried child. Since most people in our communities TG live to see their kids get married, most will never see a payout.
Also, most in our community have many more children than the general public.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #82 on: May 01, 2020, 10:38:31 AM »
In general my feeling about Areivim is that it is a very nice way to raise tzedaka money for a family who has experienced a tragedy. It is in no way a replacement for life insurance, but on the other hand, how many of those who were covered by Areivim would have had life insurance otherwise? Many of the younger families in our community are inadequately covered by life insurance. This was the case before Areivim and continues to be the case. Are there some who would have gotten insurance but are not due to Areivim? Maybe, but how should we know that?

Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #83 on: May 01, 2020, 10:42:31 AM »
In general my feeling about Areivim is that it is a very nice way to raise tzedaka money for a family who has experienced a tragedy. It is in no way a replacement for life insurance, but on the other hand, how many of those who were covered by Areivim would have had life insurance otherwise? Many of the younger families in our community are inadequately covered by life insurance. This was the case before Areivim and continues to be the case. Are there some who would have gotten insurance but are not due to Areivim? Maybe, but how should we know that?

Exactly my thought. I feel I'm giving tzedukeh every time. This is in no way similar to a ponzi scheme. Worse that could happen is that they stop and fold. it's in no way a replacement for LI. They even say that.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #84 on: May 01, 2020, 10:43:04 AM »
In general my feeling about Areivim is that it is a very nice way to raise tzedaka money for a family who has experienced a tragedy. It is in no way a replacement for life insurance, but on the other hand, how many of those who were covered by Areivim would have had life insurance otherwise? Many of the younger families in our community are inadequately covered by life insurance. This was the case before Areivim and continues to be the case. Are there some who would have gotten insurance but are not due to Areivim? Maybe, but how should we know that?

Maybe they should have a service proactively reaching out to their members to find ways for them to get affordable life insurance?
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline aygart

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #85 on: May 01, 2020, 10:44:18 AM »
Been working for a very long time!
Its a good system!
There is a very important point regarding it working for a long time that you may be overlooking. Due to the structure of Areivim, their potential liability goes up with time. Those who signed up as a young family with one or two children and therefore a potential liability of $200,000 may now have 10 children for a potential liability of 1,100,000. How will these larger families now stress the system? That remains to be seen.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Jeremiah

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #86 on: May 01, 2020, 10:45:02 AM »
In general my feeling about Areivim is that it is a very nice way to raise tzedaka money for a family who has experienced a tragedy. It is in no way a replacement for life insurance, but on the other hand, how many of those who were covered by Areivim would have had life insurance otherwise? Many of the younger families in our community are inadequately covered by life insurance. This was the case before Areivim and continues to be the case. Are there some who would have gotten insurance but are not due to Areivim? Maybe, but how should we know that?


+1
Additionally the money pooled goes directly for charitable causes and not to some big company making huge profits.

Offline aygart

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #87 on: May 01, 2020, 10:45:24 AM »
Exactly my thought. I feel I'm giving tzedukeh every time. This is in no way similar to a ponzi scheme. Worse that could happen is that they stop and fold. it's in no way a replacement for LI. They even say that.
But what percentage actually do push off getting LI due to Areivim? What percentage of Areivim members have LI?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Zevwolf

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #88 on: May 01, 2020, 10:53:37 AM »
The numbers dont add up. For instance, I pay in the same $28/month maximum even if I have 12 kids and my family stands to collect $1.3m.
Where do you get 1.3m insurance for $28/month?

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #89 on: May 01, 2020, 10:54:00 AM »
But what percentage actually do push off getting LI due to Areivim? What percentage of Areivim members have LI?

People seem to feel very strongly about this organization as a tzedaka vs any actual benefit to themselves. I'm curious if a group of them would buy life insurance with Areivim as the beneficiary to help ensure it's long term financial health and viability.
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Offline Chapshnell

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #90 on: May 01, 2020, 10:54:48 AM »
There is a very important point regarding it working for a long time that you may be overlooking. Due to the structure of Areivim, their potential liability goes up with time. Those who signed up as a young family with one or two children and therefore a potential liability of $200,000 may now have 10 children for a potential liability of 1,100,000. How will these larger families now stress the system? That remains to be seen.

yidden are ke"h growing & young ones are always signing up. Isnt this the same idea as SSN although we hope never to cash in? B"H most people pass away with their kids married off

Offline Lurker

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #91 on: May 01, 2020, 10:55:09 AM »
Where do you get 1.3m insurance for $28/month?

You don't, that's the point. This isn't supposed to be insurance, and it potentially pays out at levels that even insurance companies can't handle.
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Offline Chapshnell

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #92 on: May 01, 2020, 10:55:35 AM »
But what percentage actually do push off getting LI due to Areivim? What percentage of Areivim members have LI?

How can we add a poll, anyone know how? I have life insurance & also areivim

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #93 on: May 01, 2020, 10:55:53 AM »
yidden are ke"h growing & young ones are always signing up. Isnt this the same idea as SSN although we hope never to cash in? B"H most people pass away with their kids married off

SS is not the financial model you want to be emulating...
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Offline Chapshnell

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #94 on: May 01, 2020, 10:57:13 AM »
SS is not the financial model you want to be emulating...

I know but SSN is the same idea although different that everyone usually gets later on. Here most dont get. I wonder the %'s who do get. Probably very small

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #95 on: May 01, 2020, 11:02:45 AM »
How can we add a poll, anyone know how? I have life insurance & also areivim
+1
Monkeys don't fly unless you put them on airplanes

Offline aygart

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #96 on: May 01, 2020, 11:04:15 AM »
yidden are ke"h growing & young ones are always signing up. Isnt this the same idea as SSN although we hope never to cash in? B"H most people pass away with their kids married off
What are the long term prospect for the solvency of SS?

BH most pass away with their children married off. Most insured by TLI also pass away after the term expires.

I know but SSN is the same idea although different that everyone usually gets later on. Here most dont get. I wonder the %'s who do get. Probably very small
There is unfortunately a certain percentage who pass away young. Any plan to cover younger people will take that into consideration. If TLI takes that into consideration but costs more for a lower payout then what does that say about the long term viability of Areivim?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Chapshnell

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #97 on: May 01, 2020, 11:04:46 AM »
I added a poll, I messed it up originally and there was a vote for "no" I am changing it now so whoever voted no please check the poll again

Online AsherO

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #98 on: May 01, 2020, 11:07:18 AM »
What are the long term prospect for the solvency of SS?

SS would be solvent for eternity if the funds were managed properly and/or people could choose how to invest their own SS (or at least a part of it, with the rest being a fixed payment).

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #99 on: May 01, 2020, 11:10:21 AM »
First off, this thread is extremely refreshing. The topic is most definitely a morbid one, however it is of utmost importance. And the dialogue has been very thoughtful and respectful.

I am a big proponent of/for Areivim. While I am not personally on, as I have LI, i have made one time contributions.

While i understand the cons of giving some people a false sense of security, as well as the fact that we don't know about it's long term viability, it is my opinion that the pros are much stronger.

Put simply, I think it's better to have some people "underinsured" (by only having Areivim instead of LI),and at the same time have many who would not have any security whatsoever, on Areivim, than to eliminate Areivim.

Obviously number of people on each side play a role, but my guess is that it's helping a lot more than it's hurting.

Alternatively I think it would be much more ideal to mandate everyone with a family have LI. I think it could be enforced by schools as a prerequisite to getting in, just like internet filters. This is obviously an over simplification as the policy would need to allow for nuance (such as those with pre-existing conditions etc). I think at that point we could set up an organization to assist people in paying for life insurance.