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One line summary:
Areivim USA is a dignified way to give צדקה. It is not Life Insurance and doesn't guarantee any sort of financial protection to its members. it is registered as a religious organization and as such isn't required to incur the additional cost of preparing and filing form 990 with the IRS.

http://www.areivim.info/rform.php

Eb228
Quote
I spoke to Areivim at length as I sell life insurance and wanted to best advise ppl that had Areivim already and wanted to supplement it with LI.
I was told that it has never happened that Areivim declined to pay out based on someones assets or LI. It has happened that the family told them they don't need the money, but they never told the family no.
Simple reasoning is, they also think that 100K per yasom doesn't really cover it, the program just won't allow for a higher payout at $28/ monthly. So they encourage everyone to have LI as well to make sure kids are adequetly covered, and owning LI does not disqualify a payout [unless each kid will receive over a million dollars etc].



Quote
They are tax exempt. Click on the below IRS link and then download the first attachment. Then search "Areivim USA"

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/tax-exempt-organization-search-bulk-data-downloads


This (I have been to a few Areivim meeting with these Rabbonim)

Harav Elya Brudny, Rosh Yeshivas Mir Flatbush;
Harav Yitzchok Isaac Eichenstein, Galanter Rav;
Harav Doniel Geldzahler, Rosh Yeshivas Ohr Yisrael;
Harav Binyomin Zev Landau, Tosher Dayan of Boro Park;
Harav Henoch Shachar, Rav of Klal Ohr Tuvia in Lakewood

Areivim Terms and Conditions (emphasis added):
Quote
4) Areivim USA is not life insurance. Areivim USA has been established primarily as a charitable endeavor and its halachic status is like that of all tzedakah money collected from the public. In the event of a the passing of a member rĒl, all contributions can be made with maaser money.

5) In the event of (G-d forbid) a large number of deaths among members (as a result of a war, an earthquake, etc.), Areivim USA reserves the right to consult with its Rabbinical Board on proper procedures.

6) Members have no rights to sue or submit legal claims against the decisions of Areivim USA or its Rabbinical Board, including for failure to initiate a collection. There are no oral agreements or other commitments between Areivim USA and its members, and no such oral agreements or commitments shall be given any legal effect.

« Last edited by ExGingi on May 30, 2021, 11:11:03 AM »

Poll

Do you have Areivim & Life Insurance? (NOTE: Areivim is not life insurance)

Yes
49 (70%)
Only Areivim
21 (30%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Author Topic: Areivim USA - Coronavirus  (Read 132912 times)

Offline Lurker

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #920 on: February 08, 2023, 12:35:52 AM »
Not sure what you mean that itís a byproduct of strain. The organizers and initiators are unaffiliated.

Unaffiliated, how?

The current campaign seems to have been initiated by askanim who are involved when areivim isnít.

If Areivim becomes insolvent, the burden on these askanim becomes that much greater. I'm not ch"v implying anything other than altruism of anyone involved, but if you think the strain on Areivim hasn't been noticed and plays no part in the current campaign... I think you're shortchanging these askanim.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #921 on: February 08, 2023, 12:40:01 AM »
I know they were involved in getting it to happen but is it really entirely them?
This is what Iím being told by people who attended the meetings. FWIU itís solely due to difficulties with the amounts needed when areivem isnít involved and they approached areivim and put this together.

Of course there could be a conspiracy here which I canít disprove.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #922 on: February 08, 2023, 12:48:48 AM »
If Areivim becomes insolvent, the burden on these askanim becomes that much greater. I'm not ch"v implying anything other than altruism of anyone involved, but if you think the strain on Areivim hasn't been noticed and plays no part in the current campaign... I think you're shortchanging these askanim.
If areivim is universal than the burden is that much less and is a much more likely factor than a secret effort to save areivims long term sustainability.

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #923 on: February 08, 2023, 01:34:18 AM »
If areivim is universal than the burden is that much less and is a much more likely factor than a secret effort to save areivims long term sustainability.

I don't think there's any "secret effort." Areivim is a great (tzedakah) concept which eases the burden when tragedy strikes. Its potential reach is far greater than askanim can hope to achieve on their own, and the membership model allows coffers to be pre-loaded before the need, rather than the reactive fundraising post-tragedy. In order to ensure its sustainability, it needs more members, and a more diverse membership. Encouraging its growth is completely in line with what askanim do and why they do what they do. Seeing the burden it has carried over the last couple of years, why wouldn't askanim (affiliated or not) campaign on its behalf?

Other than Yosel and a handful of others, most people don't have an issue with Areivim in theory. One major point of contention is that it is viewed (and sometimes sold) as something remotely related to life insurance. If everyone just viewed it as a tzedakah, and made sure that their membership did not influence their financial planning in any way, most of the opposition would dissipate. You'd still have antagonists, but no more than any other organization collecting money from the public. Likewise, the sustainability questions would presist, as they do with every other organization with large expenditures. People like to support projects which will have long-term success. These questions are not unique to Areivim.
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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #924 on: February 08, 2023, 07:30:28 AM »
Encouraging its growth is completely in line with what askanim do and why they do what they do. Seeing the burden it has carried over the last couple of years, why wouldn't askanim (affiliated or not) campaign on its behalf?
Perhaps it makes sense in theory, but from what Iím hearing this simply isnít playing a role right now. They donít believe it to be floundering and the reason for the campaign is very straightforward - the more people that have it the less burden on them.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #925 on: February 08, 2023, 07:50:10 AM »
I don't think there's any "secret effort." Areivim is a great (tzedakah) concept which eases the burden when tragedy strikes. Its potential reach is far greater than askanim can hope to achieve on their own, and the membership model allows coffers to be pre-loaded before the need, rather than the reactive fundraising post-tragedy. In order to ensure its sustainability, it needs more members, and a more diverse membership. Encouraging its growth is completely in line with what askanim do and why they do what they do. Seeing the burden it has carried over the last couple of years, why wouldn't askanim (affiliated or not) campaign on its behalf?

Other than Yosel and a handful of others, most people don't have an issue with Areivim in theory. One major point of contention is that it is viewed (and sometimes sold) as something remotely related to life insurance. If everyone just viewed it as a tzedakah, and made sure that their membership did not influence their financial planning in any way, most of the opposition would dissipate. You'd still have antagonists, but no more than any other organization collecting money from the public. Likewise, the sustainability questions would presist, as they do with every other organization with large expenditures. People like to support projects which will have long-term success. These questions are not unique to Areivim.
Well said! I don't think I could've written that without letting my blood boil.

I hate reading this thread. We have already hashed out every single point here. I can go back and post quotes of previous posts to answer almost every critical point here.

It boggles my mind how people could be so against a vetted organization that give people the unbelievable opportunity to help Almanos and Yesomim. People are wasting so much time and effort bashing the organization, whether openly or subtly, when they really could just be using their posting skills to reinforce the ONLY important point that needs some reinforcement: AREIVIM IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR LIFE INSURANCE - It's not guaranteed, it's not enough money to live on, and the model is not proven over decades! That point has been plastered all over this thread, and if you open the wiki, it's the most prominent thing you'll see.

But it doesn't stop haters from raising those points again and again in a nefarious way. Why dissuade people from donating to widows and orphans? Of course you can post that in your opinion, the organization's coffers may not last forever, so the tzedakah donation may be completely leshaim shomayim, without any return if ch"v one dies. But those who attack the organization and turn people away from it instead of just clarifying these points are really doing something wrong.

I'll end with one post from myself that I think we all ought to keep in mind:
even if they would shut down today, it would have been a resounding success

Offline aygart

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #926 on: February 08, 2023, 08:25:14 AM »
This is what Iím being told by people who attended the meetings. FWIU itís solely due to difficulties with the amounts needed when areivem isnít involved and they approached areivim and put this together.

Of course there could be a conspiracy here which I canít disprove.

I for one don't consider it a conspiracy even if that was the entire purpose. Let it last as long as it can. Even if the math is the same a a ponzi scheme there is one significant difference here in that even if it collapses every contribution was just as much tzedaka as when it was given
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #927 on: February 08, 2023, 09:29:30 AM »
Perhaps it makes sense in theory, but from what Iím hearing this simply isnít playing a role right now. They donít believe it to be floundering and the reason for the campaign is very straightforward - the more people that have it the less burden on them.

Facts on the ground are that they are increasing membership "fees" and charging those fees at a higher rate than before. There is no way the askanim are blind to this. It doesn't need to be *the* reason for the push.
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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #928 on: February 08, 2023, 09:31:53 AM »
Facts on the ground are that they are increasing membership "fees" and charging those fees at a higher rate than before. There is no way the askanim are blind to this. It doesn't need to be *the* reason for the push.
The fee increase is because they are raising the benefits amount. Why in the world does that indicate trouble?

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #929 on: February 08, 2023, 09:40:46 AM »
Facts on the ground are that they are increasing membership "fees" and charging those fees at a higher rate than before. There is no way the askanim are blind to this. It doesn't need to be *the* reason for the push.
Benefit amount per child is going up to $150k to account for rising expenses and to prevent the need to fundraise for the family separately in the case of tragedy.

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #930 on: February 08, 2023, 09:42:18 AM »
Benefit amount per child is going up to $150k to account for rising expenses and to prevent the need to fundraise for the family separately in the case of tragedy.
That will not prevent the need.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yos9694

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #931 on: February 08, 2023, 09:48:58 AM »
The fee increase is because they are raising the benefits amount. Why in the world does that indicate trouble?

Upwards death spiral

Thereís going to be a continuum going from young healthy couple with no children to older couple in less than perfect health with lots of unmarried kids.

At least Social Security and Medicare has the backing of the US Government, forcing people to participate, that model has no chance in a non-mandated setting

It boggles my mind how people could be so against a vetted organization that give people the unbelievable opportunity to help Almanos and Yesomim. People are wasting so much time and effort bashing the organization, whether openly or subtly, when they really could just be using their posting skills to reinforce the ONLY important point that needs some reinforcement: AREIVIM IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR LIFE INSURANCE - It's not guaranteed, it's not enough money to live on, and the model is not proven over decades! That point has been plastered all over this thread, and if you open the wiki, it's the most prominent thing you'll see.

No hate for the organization, but you cannot deny that no matter how many times it's repeated there will still be people who won't bother with life insurance because of Areivim.

If Areivim ever fails it will harm many people who relied on it, and unless we have a way of measuring future harm it is not definite that their net impact is more good than harm. Giving us the opportunity to give tzedaka in a bakovodike way is priceless and I hope the org never does fail.

My key point is that Term life insurance is so much cheaper than most people imagine. It would be a big improvement if Areivim required every new member to also apply for life insurance, without any requirement to buy the policy. I would imagine many many people who get quotes for <$30/month for $1m coverage would take it, and the org would stand a much better chance of being self-sustaining if the only families fully dependent on them were the ones for whom LI premiums are too expensive.

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #932 on: February 08, 2023, 09:50:07 AM »
Areivim's premiums are likely to keep going up over time, real insurance can have a guaranteed non-increasing premium.
And non-increasing benefit. If someone bought a $1M policy in 2005, they would need $1.5M today to have the same inflation-adjusted benefit. If they wanted to increase coverage from $1M to $1.5M, it will be way more than 50% more expensive. Areivim increased their "benefit" by 50% for the same 50% increase in premiums. This is a pro for Areivim, not a con.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #933 on: February 08, 2023, 09:52:07 AM »

Offline AsherO

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #934 on: February 08, 2023, 09:55:16 AM »
Which demographic do you think is most represented in their membership rolls?

Adverse selection for sure.
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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #935 on: February 08, 2023, 09:56:44 AM »
Upwards death spiral

At least Social Security and Medicare has the backing of the US Government, forcing people to participate, that model has no chance in a non-mandated setting

No hate for the organization, but you cannot deny that no matter how many times it's repeated there will still be people who won't bother with life insurance because of Areivim.

If Areivim ever fails it will harm many people who relied on it, and unless we have a way of measuring future harm it is not definite that their net impact is more good than harm. Giving us the opportunity to give tzedaka in a bakovodike way is priceless and I hope the org never does fail.

My key point is that Term life insurance is so much cheaper than most people imagine. It would be a big improvement if Areivim required every new member to also apply for life insurance, without any requirement to buy the policy. I would imagine many many people who get quotes for <$30/month for $1m coverage would take it, and the org would stand a much better chance of being self-sustaining if the only families fully dependent on them were the ones for whom LI premiums are too expensive.
Why does this change anything? The Areivim payout is the same, the only difference is if and how much more the family needs.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #936 on: February 08, 2023, 10:16:57 AM »
there will still be people who won't bother with life insurance because of Areivim.
Without Areivim there would be so many without both.

It is much easier to get people to sign onto a pinpointed tzedaka campaign using maaser money, than convincing recalcitrant people to buy themselves LI. The current campaign - which isnít being run by Areivim - has made a marketing error by not focusing on that more. Itís probably because the organizers are looking at it from their perspective, which is different than the people they are trying to convince to sign up.

Offline Yosel

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #937 on: February 08, 2023, 12:20:27 PM »

Other than Yosel and a handful of others, most people don't have an issue with Areivim in theory.
Just FYI I dont have an issue with Areivim in "theory". I do have an issue with Areivim in "Reality".

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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #938 on: February 08, 2023, 01:40:57 PM »
Just FYI I dont have an issue with Areivim in "theory". I do have an issue with Areivim in "Reality".

Sorry, that was worded wrong. It's clear that you have an issues with the organizational structure, no different than you would have an issue with any other institution for similar reasons.
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Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #939 on: February 08, 2023, 04:00:47 PM »
No hate for the organization, but you cannot deny that no matter how many times it's repeated there will still be people who won't bother with life insurance because of Areivim.
I think I'm only going to respond to posts here with links to previous posts on this thread where their point was already raised and discussed...

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=116075.msg2242788