Areivim USA - Coronavirus

[WayBackMachine]

this is the same BMG campaign that was recently criticized, they clearly write that Areivim not life insurance and everyone is encouraged to get both,
I asked them about it, and they said they fixed their mistakes.

[aygart]

they clearly write that Areivim not life insurance

Where?

[dm123]

Where?

Image is pretty unclear. But it seems to say "Areivim encourages its members to also sign up for life insurance." (i.e. LI is a separate thing that should be obtained)

That being said this picture gives a very strong impression that Areivim is related to life insurance rather than a beautiful way to give tzedaka.
"also sign up for LI"
"When a family has both they should be covered for all eventualities"
"They'll be able to pick up the pieces...in a respectful manner"

If they would clarify that LI covers financial/gashmi and Areivim covers ruchni (tzedaka tatzil) or something like that I would be more comfortable with the language.
Although my comfort is largely irrelevant, if people are signing up for Areviim and looking at LI policies, then it's great.

[ExGingi]

When will the question in the poll be corrected?

Areivim is not anything one "has". People could be members, but they don't "have" anything. Life insurance on the other hand is a legal contract that gives the owners rights and benefits. It is something people could have.

[dm123]

When will the question in the poll be corrected?

Areivim is not anything one "has". People could be members, but they don't "have" anything. Life insurance on the other hand is a legal contract that gives the owners rights and benefits. It is something people could have.

Arguably the zchus hatzedaka one "has" from Areivim is much more "real" than the legal contract from life insurance.

[aygart]

Image is pretty unclear. But it seems to say "Areivim encourages its members to also sign up for life insurance." (i.e. LI is a separate thing that should be obtained)

That being said this picture gives a very strong impression that Areivim is related to life insurance rather than a beautiful way to give tzedaka.
"also sign up for LI"
"When a family has both they should be covered for all eventualities"
"They'll be able to pick up the pieces...in a respectful manner"

If they would clarify that LI covers financial/gashmi and Areivim covers ruchni (tzedaka tatzil) or something like that I would be more comfortable with the language.
Although my comfort is largely irrelevant, if people are signing up for Areviim and looking at LI policies, then it's great.

Here is a clearer image

I've enrolled not that long ago despite having enough LI coverage that al pi teva my family should not need the money due to the reframing of it as a tzedaka here on DDF. Based on their framing of it as an LI substitute/supplement, I would not have enrolled.



 

The point isn't whether or not it has a name "Life INsurance" but that it is being presented as being essentially the same thing and as a replacement for it. This answer makes it worse not better. They very clearly consider the only reason for LI to be that Areivim is not enough money. Note how they very specifically avoid giving any answer to "How is Areivim different from LI?" and instead just go on to recommend having both.

[knowitall]

My shul had a big drive this week, where the message was "Everyone should get areivim". I didn't hear once that you should get (term) life insurance. While Areivim does mention quietly that they aren't a substitute for LI, I didn't hear that this time.

I'm not anti-Areivim, I have it, I think this push is a very good thing, but would have been better if they mentioned that LI is usually attainable for a few bucks a month.

[jack79]

Who runs Areivim? Who started it?

[AsherO]

Arguably the zchus hatzedaka one "has" from Areivim is much more "real" than the legal contract from life insurance.

Let me guess, people cash that check on crowdfunding platforms. Hard pass.

[WayBackMachine]

Who runs Areivim? Who started it?

why don't you email them?

[yfr bachur]

There's a new Areivim style keren that's becoming popular here in EY.
One new Keren Tzdaka started it, and was quickly followed by Kupat Hair and Vadat Harabanim adding it to their portfolio of offerings 
I dont have the actuarial skills to break it down so I though I'd post it here and hear what the esteemed members of DDF can add to our comprehension of it/

The basic idea is that Areivim is fine for paying for the wedding/dira (not going to relitigate it now) but what are the yesomim and almana supposed to live on till then?
The plan is to collect a 1500 NIS fund for each yasom, each month, by collecting 1.5 shekel from 1000 members.
They will collect for any members yasom, regardless of financial status.
The monthly payment includes a "managment fee" of up to 9 shekel a month.
They will not collect more than 72 shekel each month - i.e. up to 42 yseomim for every 1000 members.
If there are additional yesomim above this , they will reduce the payout.
your thoughts?

[yos9694]

The numbers are all based on luck and wishes. Need clear data on number of eligible children enrolled and number of years support needed. Lets say the first 5 deaths put 42 yesomim on the payroll, how many years until it goes back to less than 42?

The pool should be measured in those terms, not in terms of  fathers/mothers. I'm amazed at all the hoops and prayers some people are willing to jump through just to avoid paying fair premiums

[yfr bachur]

The numbers are all based on luck and wishes. Need clear data on number of eligible children enrolled and number of years support needed. Lets say the first 5 deaths put 42 yesomim on the payroll, how many years until it goes back to less than 42?

The pool should be measured in those terms, not in terms of  fathers/mothers.

It obviously depends if the children are very young or older teenagers.
I was questioning its stability just based on total mortality.
Of a cohort of men and women between 20 and 50 say, what is the expected yearly mortality?
Assume 8 children a family... how long does it take to explode?

I'm amazed at all the hoops and prayers some people are willing to jump through just to avoid paying fair premiums

People on very limited budgets feel the need to do something. They can't afford regular insurance, so this is what they can do.
If someone with 5 kids under 10 does both the expanded Areivim and this new program, they can be "insured" for 2 million shekel for the kids weddings, plus monthly checks of 7500 for at least 12 years which is another million shekel, for a premium that comes out of your maaser money, as opposed to your kids food!

[dovy2]

It obviously depends if the children are very young or older teenagers.
I was questioning its stability just based on total mortality.
Of a cohort of men and women between 20 and 50 say, what is the expected yearly mortality?
Assume 8 children a family... how long does it take to explode?

People on very limited budgets feel the need to do something. They can't afford regular insurance, so this is what they can do.
If someone with 5 kids under 10 does both the expanded Areivim and this new program, they can be "insured" for 2 million shekel for the kids weddings, plus monthly checks of 7500 for at least 12 years which is another million shekel, for a premium that comes out of your maaser money, as opposed to your kids food!

I think the main reason people here (on DDF) are so against these programs isn't because the payout amounts are too low.. it's because they feel that they are not good enough of a guarantee. (I personally have both).

[knowitall]

The main issue I have with Areivim is a policy they have. They require 100% of funds to be invested in FDIC insured products, even if the time horizon is very long. While I agree they shouldn’t let the money be invested in private investments, such as Real Estate syndications, this policy hurts the almonos. Just put the long term money in the S&P, as purchasing power risk is a very real risk they are ignoring.

[Yosel]

Personally involved in a case were the husband age 30 aprox. past away almost 3 years ago, in Lakewood.

of course areivim did not pay yet..........................

Yet, they charged the credit cards 3 years ago, and they are sitting on the MONEY...........

[JMHO]

of course areivim did not pay yet..........................

Did they give a reason?

[gozalim]

The main issue I have with Areivim is a policy they have. They require 100% of funds to be invested in FDIC insured products, even if the time horizon is very long. While I agree they shouldn’t let the money be invested in private investments, such as Real Estate syndications, this policy hurts the almonos. Just put the long term money in the S&P, as purchasing power risk is a very real risk they are ignoring.

I believe there are halachos about this

[Yosel]

Did they give a reason?

most of the time it was about the rabonim will have meeting........ after yom tov etc.   then there was a Trust issue (setting it up) then another meeting of the rabonim,,,,, they also had an issue that there was a charidy campaign where $300k was raised, what it has to do with these ganovim/arievim, I dont know.
The bottom line the almana has remarried by now and she and her yesomim were cheated .............

i may go public with the name, if i feel its the right thing to do............ but not yet

[JACKBLUE]

most of the time it was about the rabonim will have meeting........ after yom tov etc.   then there was a Trust issue (setting it up) then another meeting of the rabonim,,,,, they also had an issue that there was a charidy campaign where $300k was raised, what it has to do with these ganovim/arievim, I dont know.
The bottom line the almana has remarried by now and she and her yesomim were cheated .............

i may go public with the name, if i feel its the right thing to do............ but not yet

Can you PM me a name and i'll reach out to them to find out details, i'll post back here what answer i get from them.