Areivim USA - Coronavirus

[JACKBLUE]

Did anyone ever claim they don’t pay out when there is life insurance?

I remember seeing such posts in this thread, i may be wrong though, can't find it now. my point is that i know a few cases that got payouts no questions asked, and i'm seeing here posts that they are Ganuvim and don't give payouts, so i'm trying to get a name of a case so i can ask them and report back. That's it!

[WayBackMachine]

That minor condition MAY make it that there shouldn't be coverage. I don't know what the rules and contract say. But it's not that far-fetched. And if it's in there, I feel bad that they aren't getting the money they feel they are owed and probably need, especially at such a moment but the end of the day, it's aren't a tzedaka organization (and even tzedaka organizations have certain parameters of who they give to....)

its is a tzedaka organization with rules just like every organization, no one gives for all blindly otherwise they will close their doors yesterday

[AsherO]

its is a tzedaka organization with rules just like every organization, no one gives for all blindly otherwise they will close their doors yesterday

Every month they charge members they say which family it’s going to? I wasn’t aware of that.

[JACKBLUE]

Every month they charge members they say which family it’s going to? I wasn’t aware of that.

They don’t say a name by every collection, they just say from which city and who the Rabanim are on the case.

[JACKBLUE]

They don’t say a name by every collection, they just say from which city and who the Rabanim are on the case.

This is the last email I got.

Dear Mr. and Mrs.
 
It is with great pain that we notify you of the untimely Petirah of an Areivim USA member, from Lakewood leaving behind a widower and five orphans R''l  Therefore, Areivim USA members are requested to donate in the month of June.

Rav Uri Deutsch, Rav of Forest Park-Lakewood will be overseeing the collection on behalf of the family.

Your card/account ending in 9369, will be debited in the amount of $42 on or about 6/1/2023 .
Please make sure this card/account is still valid. In the case it is not valid, or you would like to change the payment method, please contact us no later than Thursday May 31st with the correct information.
 
If you do not wish to donate, please call us by Thursday May 31st or we will assume that you want us to charge the account we have on file for the above amount.

In the zechus of of supporting almonos & yesomim in a respectful and discreet manner, may we all be spared any sorrow and may our services speedily become obsolete.
 
                                          Thank you & Tizku L'Mitzvos
For any questions or for further assistance feel free to contact us at:
1-877-827-3484 / 1-866-727-3484 / 718-977-5089
By email office@areivimusa.org or by replying to this email.

[yfr bachur]

If anyone cared enough, they could figure out who the payout is going to by cross referencing the Areivim details with a misaskim list...

Honestly, like every insurance co, they tell you the conditions up front.
If you come from a wealthy family, hide any health issues... They told you that you wont get a payment. They also tell you upfront that the funds will be collected! The rabbanim decide where those funds go to!
If someone went to a US insurance co, took out life insurance, hid the fact that they live in Israel, have diabites and high blood pressure... and then died in a car accident... The insurance co would NOT LOSE a court case to force them to pay/
It's NOT a regular tzedaka org. Its like a healthshare, a club, where the members make a pact that if you keep the rules of the club, the rest of the members will provide X for the members survivours. It happens to be, that becuase the benificiaries are raui to get tzedaka, it's tzedaka.

[Yehudaa]

If anyone cared enough, they could figure out who the payout is going to by cross referencing the Areivim details with a misaskim list...

How would you know which ones on the misaskim list were Areivim members?

Honestly, like every insurance co, they tell you the conditions up front.
If you come from health issues... They told you that you wont get a payment. They also tell you upfront that the funds will be collected! The rabbanim decide where those funds go to!
If someone went to a US insurance co, took out life insurance, hid the fact that they live in Israel, have diabites and high blood pressure... and then died in a car accident... The insurance co would NOT LOSE a court case to force them to pay/
It's NOT a regular tzedaka org. Its like a healthshare, a club, where the members make a pact that if you keep the rules of the club, the rest of the members will provide X for the members survivours. It happens to be, that becuase the benificiaries are raui to get tzedaka, it's tzedaka.

I’m sure there are, but presumably the solution is often a lawsuit. I’m sure there are lots of lawyers out there who do that for a living. Not sure that’s relevant with Areivim though.

[yfr bachur]

How would you know which ones on the misaskim list were Areivim members?

Petirah of an Areivim USA member, from Lakewood leaving behind a widower and five orphans R''l  Therefore, Areivim USA members are requested to donate in the month of June. Rav Uri Deutsch, Rav of Forest Park-Lakewood will be overseeing the collection on behalf of the family.

You could narrow it down to a woman from lakewood, died in april or may, who left 5 children (bonus if they live in Forest Park)

[yos9694]

If anyone cared enough, they could figure out who the payout is going to by cross referencing the Areivim details with a misaskim list...

Honestly, like every insurance co, they tell you the conditions up front.
If you come from a wealthy family, hide any health issues... They told you that you wont get a payment. They also tell you upfront that the funds will be collected! The rabbanim decide where those funds go to!
If someone went to a US insurance co, took out life insurance, hid the fact that they live in Israel, have diabites and high blood pressure... and then died in a car accident... The insurance co would NOT LOSE a court case to force them to pay/
It's NOT a regular tzedaka org. Its like a healthshare, a club, where the members make a pact that if you keep the rules of the club, the rest of the members will provide X for the members survivours. It happens to be, that becuase the benificiaries are raui to get tzedaka, it's tzedaka.

The life insurance co would get out of paying because the guy lives in Israel, not because of lying about blood pressure and diabetes. Life insurance is issued to people with those conditions all the time, so they'd only be able to claim that the misrepresentation would have led to a higher premium, not a denial

[Baruch]

If anyone cared enough, they could figure out who the payout is going to by cross referencing the Areivim details with a misaskim list...

Honestly, like every insurance co, they tell you the conditions up front.
If you come from a wealthy family, hide any health issues... They told you that you wont get a payment. They also tell you upfront that the funds will be collected! The rabbanim decide where those funds go to!
If someone went to a US insurance co, took out life insurance, hid the fact that they live in Israel, have diabites and high blood pressure... and then died in a car accident... The insurance co would NOT LOSE a court case to force them to pay/
It's NOT a regular tzedaka org. Its like a healthshare, a club, where the members make a pact that if you keep the rules of the club, the rest of the members will provide X for the members survivours. It happens to be, that becuase the benificiaries are raui to get tzedaka, it's tzedaka.

From what I understand they give to wealthy families as well, if the family insists, just they first have the family's Rav try to convince not to take, but technically any family can get if they insist, besides if there's a preexisting health condition.

[Baruch]

I will not PM you........ I will post their name in public............ its time that klal yisroel has a look into their behavior (pansy scheme) expose them and their bank account.

BTW, can you find out what the balance is in their account today?? get us a Dollar amount, then we will check for the month of May, April, lets see the numbers, and as adults we can decide for our self ..........................

Of course I thank you in advance

When they collected money for this almana, they named a Rav who is in charge. Everyone gave based on their trust that that Rav will take care of the family, that's what he signed on to by agreeing to give his name. It's his job to get the funds, and he can publicize that Areivim is stealing if they are. We rely on the Rabbanim to keep them honest.

Where do you come in?

[S209]

I will not PM you........ I will post their name in public............ its time that klal yisroel has a look into their behavior (pansy scheme) expose them and their bank account.

BTW, can you find out what the balance is in their account today?? get us a Dollar amount, then we will check for the month of May, April, lets see the numbers, and as adults we can decide for our self ..........................

Of course I thank you in advance

You have been the primary voice against Areivim calling them ganavim from day one on this thread so until and unless you actually post (or PM) a name I am inclined to believe you are completely making this up to support your previously held position.  I definitely agree that there are severe issues with the sustainability of the model but up that’s a far cry from labeling them ganavim.

[JACKBLUE]

You have been the primary voice against Areivim calling them ganavim from day one on this thread so until and unless you actually post (or PM) a name I am inclined to believe you are completely making this up to support your previously held position.  I definitely agree that there are severe issues with the sustainability of the model but up that’s a far cry from labeling them ganavim.

I'm still waiting for his PM with a name that he posted he will post public, which for some reason he didn't post public yet......

[yuneeq]

You have been the primary voice against Areivim calling them ganavim from day one on this thread so until and unless you actually post (or PM) a name I am inclined to believe you are completely making this up to support your previously held position.  I definitely agree that there are severe issues with the sustainability of the model but up that’s a far cry from labeling them ganavim.

I keep hearing about the sustainability of their model. I don’t get the issue. They are not holding on to funds. When someone dies, they charge your card and disburse. They are supposed to be at $0 balance.

Worst case scenario - people leave the program and they can’t recruit new members - they can lower the disbursement. It’s not life insurance. It’s automated collective giving. And it’s been working very well for many years.

[S209]

I keep hearing about the sustainability of their model. I don’t get the issue. They are not holding on to funds. When someone dies, they charge your card and disburse. They are supposed to be at $0 balance.

Worst case scenario - people leave the program and they can’t recruit new members - they can lower the disbursement. It’s not life insurance. It’s automated collective giving. And it’s been working very well for many years.

This has been rehashed several times, I don’t think this can last too long for several reasons but ultimately I agree with you that it will still have been a success even if/when they need to disband eventually.

[yuneeq]

This has been rehashed several times, I don’t think this can last too long for several reasons but ultimately I agree with you that it will still have been a success even if/when they need to disband eventually.

How long is too long for it to last in your opinion? Is it a problem with the model or something that will/has changed?
From my research I can see they have been around since at least 2006.

[S209]

How long is too long for it to last in your opinion? Is it a problem with the model or something that will/has changed?
From my research I can see they have been around since at least 2006.

I don’t think they will last a full generation of young families signing up and reaching the end of their dependence. So let’s say 40 years. I actually think they’ll last much less than that, probably not more than another 5 years or so.

[yuneeq]

I don’t think they will last a full generation of young families signing up and reaching the end of their dependence. So let’s say 40 years. I actually think they’ll last much less than that, probably not more than another 5 years or so.

I don’t see any provided reason or logic backing that prediction. What will go wrong?

[Euclid]

I don’t see any provided reason or logic backing that prediction. What will go wrong?

They need to lower the median age of the existing groups

[Joe4007]

They need to lower the median age of the existing groups

If the vast majority of funds are collected for unmarried children, then not sure this is true.