Topic Wiki

One line summary:
Areivim USA is a dignified way to give צדקה. It is not Life Insurance and doesn't guarantee any sort of financial protection to its members. it is registered as a religious organization and as such isn't required to incur the additional cost of preparing and filing form 990 with the IRS.

http://www.areivim.info/rform.php

Eb228
Quote
I spoke to Areivim at length as I sell life insurance and wanted to best advise ppl that had Areivim already and wanted to supplement it with LI.
I was told that it has never happened that Areivim declined to pay out based on someones assets or LI. It has happened that the family told them they don't need the money, but they never told the family no.
Simple reasoning is, they also think that 100K per yasom doesn't really cover it, the program just won't allow for a higher payout at $28/ monthly. So they encourage everyone to have LI as well to make sure kids are adequetly covered, and owning LI does not disqualify a payout [unless each kid will receive over a million dollars etc].



Quote
They are tax exempt. Click on the below IRS link and then download the first attachment. Then search "Areivim USA"

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/tax-exempt-organization-search-bulk-data-downloads


This (I have been to a few Areivim meeting with these Rabbonim)

Harav Elya Brudny, Rosh Yeshivas Mir Flatbush;
Harav Yitzchok Isaac Eichenstein, Galanter Rav;
Harav Doniel Geldzahler, Rosh Yeshivas Ohr Yisrael;
Harav Binyomin Zev Landau, Tosher Dayan of Boro Park;
Harav Henoch Shachar, Rav of Klal Ohr Tuvia in Lakewood

Areivim Terms and Conditions (emphasis added):
Quote
4) Areivim USA is not life insurance. Areivim USA has been established primarily as a charitable endeavor and its halachic status is like that of all tzedakah money collected from the public. In the event of a the passing of a member rl, all contributions can be made with maaser money.

5) In the event of (G-d forbid) a large number of deaths among members (as a result of a war, an earthquake, etc.), Areivim USA reserves the right to consult with its Rabbinical Board on proper procedures.

6) Members have no rights to sue or submit legal claims against the decisions of Areivim USA or its Rabbinical Board, including for failure to initiate a collection. There are no oral agreements or other commitments between Areivim USA and its members, and no such oral agreements or commitments shall be given any legal effect.

« Last edited by ExGingi on May 30, 2021, 11:11:03 AM »

Poll

Do you have Areivim & Life Insurance? (NOTE: Areivim is not life insurance)

Yes
49 (70%)
Only Areivim
21 (30%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Author Topic: Areivim USA - Coronavirus  (Read 133159 times)

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6384
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #140 on: May 01, 2020, 02:02:51 PM »
That is what I advise ppl buying term insurance from me.  Calculate how much more you need than what Areivim will pay.
Currently  in Lakewood, if someone dies with no Areivim or LI, the askanim try to raise 180K per yasom, and another 180K per 3 yesomoim for the almana.
So if you have 3 kids, Areivim would pay 400K, but the askanim calculate the need to be 720K. So a 320K policy will do it.
Though you may want to get a little more [500K etc.] so as not to have to buy another small policy  every time you have another kid.

So in your experience, this is absolutely being treated as life insurance, and actual life insurance is being treated as supplemental to fill possible shortfalls.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline JuryDuty

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 1101
  • Total likes: 222
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #141 on: May 01, 2020, 02:07:04 PM »
So in your experience, this is absolutely being treated as life insurance, and actual life insurance is being treated as supplemental to fill possible shortfalls.

Which is interesting, because the number one reason not to get life insurance is the price, and this is just requiring an additional premium.

This advertises as a prevention for people not needing to collect money, but the reality is far from the way people envision it
Jury Duty: Nothing to do there but chill and write a TR. Kinda like the beach but missing the view and ocean breeze.

Offline Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3760
  • Total likes: 2280
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #142 on: May 01, 2020, 02:12:02 PM »
Oh you thought I was addressing you personally? Just the opposite! I am agreeing with you and adding to it!
:)

Offline Iz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 6971
  • Total likes: 456
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #143 on: May 01, 2020, 02:13:30 PM »
On a related topic: I've been thinking recently about the need for people to get LI, and considering starting a thread here to encourage it. Then I searched and found a few neglected threads about it. So I didn't know what to do. The perfect being the enemy of the good, I did nothing. Now I see this thread where the LI chevra seem to be hanging out. So I'm putting it out there for you. Does someone want to start a thread, revive an old one, or just discuss it here?
And for the record, I have absolutely nothing to do with the insurance business, and I don't even know too much about it. But I know enough to know that klal yisroel cannot survive on tzedakah alone. (I am not trying to start another discussion about bitachon etc. There are other threads for that.)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 02:22:03 PM by Iz »

Offline Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3760
  • Total likes: 2280
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #144 on: May 01, 2020, 02:17:44 PM »
So in your experience, this is absolutely being treated as life insurance, and actual life insurance is being treated as supplemental to fill possible shortfalls.

If any CPAs can chime in here, im wondering if being that Areivim is essentially a charity fund, i assume that any payouts would be taxable, unlike real LI ?!

Offline Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3760
  • Total likes: 2280
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #145 on: May 01, 2020, 02:18:49 PM »
On a related topic: I've been thinking recently about the need for people to get LI, and considering starting a thread here to encourage it. The I searched and found a few neglected threads about it. So I didn't know what to do. The perfect being the enemy of the good, I did nothing. Now I see this thread where the LI chevra seem to be hanging out. So I'm putting it out there for you. Does someone want to start a thread, revive an old one, or just discuss it here?
And for the record, I have absolutely nothing to do with the insurance business, and I don't even know too much about it. But I know enough to know that klal yisroel cannot survive on tzedakah alone. (I am not trying to start another discussion about bitachon etc. There are other threads for that.)

We should definitely start a thread.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17296
  • Total likes: 14101
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #146 on: May 01, 2020, 02:20:20 PM »
But I know enough to know that klal yisroel cannot survive on tzedakah alone. (I am not trying to start another discussion about bitachon etc. There are other threads for that.)
It is bifeirush a gemara.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Eb228

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 352
  • Total likes: 129
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #147 on: May 01, 2020, 02:27:14 PM »
So in your experience, this is absolutely being treated as life insurance, and actual life insurance is being treated as supplemental to fill possible shortfalls.

Definetly by a large number of ppl.
Rather pay "premium" to tzedaka than to a LI company, they say.

Offline shapsam

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Feb 2017
  • Posts: 3012
  • Total likes: 623
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #148 on: May 01, 2020, 02:30:04 PM »
I spoke to Areivim at length as I sell life insurance and wanted to best advise ppl that had Areivim already and wanted to supplement it with LI.
I was told that it has never happened that Areivim declined to pay out based on someones assets or LI. It has happened that the family told them they don't need the money, but they never told the family no.
Simple reasoning is, they also think that 100K per yasom doesn't really cover it, the program just won't allow for a higher payout at $28/ monthly. So they encourage everyone to have LI as well to make sure kids are adequetly covered, and owning LI does not disqualify a payout [unless each kid will receive over a million dollars etc].
Is that a hard number? and what is the etc?

Offline JACKBLUE

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2398
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #149 on: May 01, 2020, 02:30:43 PM »
From my understanding, it is up to the family and their rabonim to determine if a collection should me initiated if there are other assets.

In almost lots of cases, a 1m LI is not enough to get the kids married off and alow for the surviving parent to remarry without new spouse taking over the burden
I personally know of a case when a member passed away and left 7 unmarried children, and had $4M LI and got from Areivim the money no questions asked.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6384
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #150 on: May 01, 2020, 02:32:57 PM »
Definetly by a large number of ppl.
Rather pay "premium" to tzedaka than to a LI company, they say.

I'm not quite sure I understand the mentality, but I've been experiencing that a lot lately...
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Eb228

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 352
  • Total likes: 129
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #151 on: May 01, 2020, 02:33:42 PM »
Which is interesting, because the number one reason not to get life insurance is the price, and this is just requiring an additional premium.

This advertises as a prevention for people not needing to collect money, but the reality is far from the way people envision it

The number one reason?
There's actually no reason not to get LI.

And this premium is masser and going straight to an almana and yesomim,  ot to a large coorperation.

Yes, it advirtises as not needing to make a collection, the exact same reason to get LI. It is very argueable that LI is not for the family to have money, they would have money from collections anyway. But it is to save them from the shame of having their names plastered all over the city. And from having the yesomims friends seeing pictures of their friends crying by their fathers levaya, asking for money. And from those same friends comparing how much each of their fathers gave torwards the campaign. Etc. Etc.

Offline Eb228

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 352
  • Total likes: 129
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #152 on: May 01, 2020, 02:35:19 PM »
I personally know of a case when a member passed away and left 7 unmarried children, and had $4M LI and got from Areivim the money no questions asked.

Thanks for posting that info.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17296
  • Total likes: 14101
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #153 on: May 01, 2020, 02:37:45 PM »
A point I want to bring up is that we see now how their setup has been stressed by a disease which mostly was not dangerous for younger people. If they need to raise $8,000,000 that means covering "a mere (r"l)" 80 yesomim. This is putting the system under stress. What about additional payouts which they may be obligated for over the next 4 years? Considering how families have grown since enrolling and the enrollees have gotten older, it statistically makes sense that this will happen. In addition to this, how would it survive if there is C"V a second wave? What if that second wave is C"V worse? What if this virus C"V causes chronic future issues? Most of all, would it survive a situation where younger people are equally affected? Where women are equally affected?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Eb228

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 352
  • Total likes: 129
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #154 on: May 01, 2020, 02:38:54 PM »
Is that a hard number? and what is the etc?

It's not a hard number no. That's what the etc was.
Meaning unless they determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is sufficent fujds for the yesomim, they wil pay.

Offline Iz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 6971
  • Total likes: 456
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #155 on: May 01, 2020, 02:44:42 PM »

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17296
  • Total likes: 14101
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #156 on: May 01, 2020, 02:48:31 PM »
?

אמר רבי שמעון חסידא כנור היה תלוי למעלה ממטתו של דוד כיון שהגיע חצות לילה רוח צפונית מנשבת בו והיה מנגן מאליו מיד היה דוד עומד ועוסק בתורה עד שעלה עמוד השחר כיון שעלה עמוד השחר נכנסו חכמי ישראל אצלו אמרו לו אדונינו המלך עמך ישראל צריכין לפרנסה אמר להן לכו והתפרנסו זה מזה אמרו לו אין הקומץ משביע את הארי ואין הבור מתמלא מחולייתו אמר להם לכו פשטו ידיכם בגדוד מיד יועצין באחיתופל ונמלכין בסנהדרין ושואלין באורים ותומים
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Let3

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 1102
  • Total likes: 30
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New Jersey
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #157 on: May 01, 2020, 02:56:12 PM »
+10000

The premise is very smart. Instead of making flashy campaigns when someone dies, there is a donor list that will each give $7 per orphan. As a plus, you have that protection.

I see it as a tzedakah opportunity. The self-protection is only a bonus.
I dont want to chv make light of this org.
Just try uhh to clarify.
Are they not making campaigns for the families that had areivim?

And is it verified that they give out money to families that have other life insurance? No mater how much?

Offline JuryDuty

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 1101
  • Total likes: 222
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #158 on: May 01, 2020, 03:02:45 PM »
The number one reason?
There's actually no reason not to get LI.

You're preaching to the choir. There's a reason why not everyone owns it, though.

Yes, it advirtises as not needing to make a collection, the exact same reason to get LI. It is very argueable that LI is not for the family to have money, they would have money from collections anyway. But it is to save them from the shame of having their names plastered all over the city. And from having the yesomims friends seeing pictures of their friends crying by their fathers levaya, asking for money. And from those same friends comparing how much each of their fathers gave torwards the campaign. Etc. Etc.

And so that a person don't have to make their own family dependent on others, not to make their own family need tzedaka. It's a tircha on the tzibur, and it's irresponsible.
Jury Duty: Nothing to do there but chill and write a TR. Kinda like the beach but missing the view and ocean breeze.

Offline Yosel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 1057
  • Total likes: 64
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #159 on: May 01, 2020, 03:07:46 PM »
Areivim has never paid $$$$$ to a Almana.!   Been researching this for a long time. I would love to be wrong, so if someone can tell me that they saw a copy of a check payable to a family, I would love hear/see it.
Yes! They put money in a fund for the future!!! And so on. Ive heard that a lot.
Thanks