Areivim USA - Coronavirus

[Essen est zich]

Is there a new competitor to areivim?

Lifeshare?

https://lifeshare.community/

[4yourinfo]

Is there a new competitor to areivim?

Lifeshare?

https://lifeshare.community/

Just spoke with them..
The difference (I was told) a set payout right away, payout set amount with a very transparent system vs. Areivim different amounts per family, holding money for the kids, have to be eligible for payout, not so transparent where the money ends up etc.. (I myself wonder how  Areivim always seem to collect the max and somehow it magically covers perfectly - the numbers always work out so perfectly? Are they short? a bit over? - who knows..)

[Alexsei]

Just spoke with them..
The difference (I was told) a set payout right away, payout set amount with a very transparent system vs. Areivim different amounts per family, holding money for the kids, have to be eligible for payout, not so transparent where the money ends up etc.. (I myself wonder how  Areivim always seem to collect the max and somehow it magically covers perfectly - the numbers always work out so perfectly? Are they short? a bit over? - who knows..)

Areivim pays per surviving dependent + spouse, this one seems to pay flat sum regardless
Areivim doesn't seem to have an age limit this one seems to limit payouts only for deaths occurring before age 65 

Question: Do either of them object signing up for both?

[Chaim723]

Just spoke with them..
 have to be eligible for payout, not so transparent where the money ends up etc..

They both don't cover people with pre existing life threatening conditions who's definition is both decided by their Vaad, respectively. What's the difference between the 2?

. (I myself wonder how  Areivim always seem to collect the max and somehow it magically covers perfectly - the numbers always work out so perfectly? Are they short? a bit over? - who knows..)

Who said it comes out to the exact amount? If they don't collect enough on 1 month they can take some from the next month. With life share they also say that if when the pool grows big enough and there's extra one month, they'll likely keep it for the next collection. I don't see an issue with that.
One main benefit of life share is that they claim they'll pay within 72 hours. The downside is that it's per person (not per household) so you're max out of pocket in a year is $808 (although they claim it'll generally be allot less) while Areivim is $504 (and for people with bigger families, Areivim pays much more - family of 6 kids they'll pay over a million). The fact that a Rabbi and family member has to oversee the funds by Areivim, I don't see as much of a downwide. They apparently just restrict the money from being invested in the market due to their psak they have about not risking Tzdaka money of Yesomim.

Areivim also has no administration fee - every single penny goes to the Yesomim - besides the credit card processing fees. (all their other expenses are sponsored). Lifeshare has a $40 annual membership fee currently (went up from $25 when they first launched a few months ago). Not a big difference but just pointing it out.

What I don't like about lifeshare is their advertizing "The only crowdfunding community protecting families before an unexpected loss. Together, we can act before tragedy strikes." which is pretending to be the first one with this concept, when they're merely copying the idea from Areivim with some tweaks.
 

[Chaim723]

Question: Do either of them object signing up for both?

No

[4yourinfo]

They both don't cover people with pre existing life threatening conditions who's definition is both decided by their Vaad, respectively. What's the difference between the 2?Who said it comes out to the exact amount? If they don't collect enough on 1 month they can take some from the next month. With life share they also say that if when the pool grows big enough and there's extra one month, they'll likely keep it for the next collection. I don't see an issue with that.
One main benefit of life share is that they claim they'll pay within 72 hours. The downside is that it's per person (not per household) so you're max out of pocket in a year is $808 (although they claim it'll generally be allot less) while Areivim is $504 (and for people with bigger families, Areivim pays much more - family of 6 kids they'll pay over a million). The fact that a Rabbi and family member has to oversee the funds by Areivim, I don't see as much of a downwide. They apparently just restrict the money from being invested in the market due to their psak they have about not risking Tzdaka money of Yesomim.

Areivim also has no administration fee - every single penny goes to the Yesomim - besides the credit card processing fees. (all their other expenses are sponsored). Lifeshare has a $40 annual membership fee currently (went up from $25 when they first launched a few months ago). Not a big difference but just pointing it out.

What I don't like about lifeshare is their advertizing "The only crowdfunding community protecting families before an unexpected loss. Together, we can act before tragedy strikes." which is pretending to be the first one with this concept, when they're merely copying the idea from Areivim with some tweaks.

When I wrote eligible - I was referring to Areivim officially only pays out to those that "need" the money vs. Lifeshare pays out regardless..

2)Where does Areivim write that they can collect extra money and use it a different month? What they do write is they collect a max of x money -  They should be collecting what they need as they write in the terms - unless they are always short? Not transparent exactly what goes on over there.

3)I did mention to them the advertising needs tweaking as its not the only crowdfunding ...

[Chaim723]

When I wrote eligible - I was referring to Areivim officially only pays out to those that "need" the money vs. Lifeshare pays out regardless..

2)Where does Areivim write that they can collect extra money and use it a different month? What they do write is they collect a max of x money -  They should be collecting what they need as they write in the terms - unless they are always short? Not transparent exactly what goes on over there.

I'll send a link to a presentation of the founder of Areivim, as well as Lifeshare . (With Areivim, if the family SAYS they need, they get it. If they say they don't need, they don't. Watch the video.
https://www.youtube.com/live/FNRZwUxVN7A (skip the first 35 minutes).

Lifeshare:
https://youtu.be/oidJx18r1VE?si=TBapIPtmhOYMqDWe

[Chaim723]

Not transparent exactly what goes on over there.

Nonsense. You might want to first watch both videos to educate yourself about both of them, before making baseless accusations by implication...

[4yourinfo]

Nonsense. You might want to first watch both videos to educate yourself about both of them, before making baseless accusations by implication...

Arevim writes they collect x amount with a max - why are they always collecting the max? when did this video come out? did they recently became more transparent when competition arrived?


Just noticed this in their t/c The precise collection amount per orphan will be determined by the Areivim USA Rabbinical Board.
Looks like they updated their t/c - What exactly does this mean - coming clean with their imprecise collections?

[Chaim723]

when did this video come out? did they recently became more transparent when competition arrived?

This video is from 2 years ago, way before Lifeshare existed. Could be their website is not as informative, but if you care to find out the details about what goes on behind the scenes, you can. It's not like they're trying to keep any secrets...
I personally know two families that unfortunately dealt with this, and I spoke to one of the rabbis that oversaw a collection on a family's behalf, so I found out more details from the other side of it.
I was very impressed the way they handled it all.

[4yourinfo]

This video is from 2 years ago, way before Lifeshare existed. Could be their website is not as informative, but if you care to find out the details about what goes on behind the scenes, you can. It's not like they're trying to keep any secrets...
I personally know two families that unfortunately dealt with this, and I spoke to one of the rabbis that oversaw a collection on a family's behalf, so I found out more details from the other side of it.
I was very impressed the way they handled it all.

FYI As a member of Areivim I am fine with the program - I just never found their collections making so much sense based on the fact that I was told the amount is based on how many members and deaths children yet somehow they were always collecting the same max amount even if more members joined etc. or their covid collections they somehow charged new joining members? Didn't they already figure out the amounts from the existing pool? I trusted the Rabbanim that they used carried money over etc. but I don't call that "transparent"

[Chaim723]

FYI As a member of Areivim I am fine with the program - I just never found their collections making so much sense based on the fact that I was told the amount is based on how many members and deaths children yet somehow they were always collecting the same max amount even if more members joined etc. or their covid collections they somehow charged new joining members? Didn't they already figure out the amounts from the existing pool? I trusted the Rabbanim that they used carried money over etc. but I don't call that "transparent"

I'd assume at this point they average it out. If let's say there's 5 to 10 Yesomim per month, and with their pool of approx 25k members (last I heard) x $42 you're at $1,050,000 which is enough for 7 Yesomim or 6 plus spouse.

If there's extra one month, it can go towards the next month. And if there's not enough one month they can wait till the next month.

I think most people rather pay a flat amount every month rather then not pay one month and then the next month have to pay $100 +

It's obviously a little bit more confusing than Lifeshare which is a flat amount or 250k per death, yet they still say they'll likely hold on to extra money if there is for the next collection (see the video).

[4yourinfo]

yet they still say they'll likely hold on to extra money if there is for the next collection (see the video).

That is new info that I and probably most of their members are not aware of - I read when I signed up that they collect the amount of money that is required for the families with a max of x $... Did the rules change? they now collect the max and use it for a future claim? doesn't say that anywhere on their website? seems to infer the opposite in fact. Again, I have no problem I am fine with that - Can we agree the system isn't "transparent" at least up until this new video?

[Chaim723]

That is new info that I and probably most of their members are not aware of - I read when I signed up that they collect the amount of money that is required for the families with a max of x $... Did the rules change? they now collect the max and use it for a future claim? doesn't say that anywhere on their website? seems to infer the opposite in fact. Again, I have no problem I am fine with that - Can we agree the system isn't "transparent" at least up until this new video?

Lol. You quoted the part of my message that's talking about Lifeshare. They also will likely hold unto extra money for the next collection WATCH THE VIDEO. (Even though it doesn't say on their website either. You can't expect every single detail to by on a website.)

[jye]

No

Wouldn’t getting a lifeshare payout knock out Areivim since they only pay based on need?

[Chaim723]

Wouldn’t getting a lifeshare payout knock out Areivim since they only pay based on need?

Exactly, 250k that Lifeshare pays is plenty. Especially for a large family. I should probably cancel my life insurance too while I'm at it...

[yuneeq]

This video is from 2 years ago, way before Lifeshare existed. Could be their website is not as informative, but if you care to find out the details about what goes on behind the scenes, you can. It's not like they're trying to keep any secrets...

They also will likely hold unto extra money for the next collection WATCH THE VIDEO. (Even though it doesn't say on their website either. You can't expect every single detail to by on a website.)

No one cares about every detail being on the website until they find out the unofficial terms are not what they expected, and a million bucks on the line. There's no reason not to have every last detail in writing with the amount of money they are handling and entrusted with.

[Chaim723]

No one cares about every detail being on the website until they find out the unofficial terms are not what they expected, and a million bucks on the line. There's no reason not to have every last detail in writing with the amount of money they are handling and entrusted with.

So I assume you have the same complaint against Lifeshare?

[Chaim723]

No one cares about every detail being on the website until they find out the unofficial terms are not what they expected, and a million bucks on the line.

In what scenario is there "a million bucks on the line"? (Aside from someone who lies on their application regarding medical status etc., in which case both organizations likely won't cover).

[yuneeq]

So I assume you have the same complaint against Lifeshare?

Didn't check them out but going by your word, yes