Author Topic: Covid-19 # are skewed  (Read 7303 times)

Offline KSMH

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Covid-19 # are skewed
« on: May 03, 2020, 02:54:15 PM »
I am sensitive to the fact that many people died and are/were hospitalized as a direct result of Covid-19.

This does not mitigate the fact that there are many listed as Covid-19 as a cause of death or hospitalization when in fact it has nothing too little to do with covid-19.

Hospitals are said to get x3 as much reimbursement if a patient is listed as Covid-19 and placed on a respirator.

Hospitals are said to get reimbursed  20% more  for every patient listed as covid-19.


As an example, I personally know 1st hand of someone that went to a prominent NYC hospital today for a broken hip that required emergency surgery. The PT coughed, the hospital staff said they want to list PT as COVID-19. The PT's guardian refused absent a test, they tested and it came back negative, currently they still want to list patent as covid so they said they'll test again soon... This might go on until they get a positive.  They were not going to give any different care, just wanted some more money.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 02:59:00 PM by KSMH »
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Offline S209

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2020, 02:58:27 PM »
I am sensitive to the fact that many people died and hospitalized as a direct result of Covid-19.

This does not mitigate the fact that there are many listed as Covid-19 as a cause of death or hospitalization when in fact it has nothing too little to do with covid-19.

Hospitals are said to get x3 as much reimbursement if a patient is listed as Covid-19 and placed on a respirator.

Hospitals are said to get reimbursed  20% more  for every patient listed as covid-19.


As an example, I personally know 1st hand of someone that went to a prominent NYC hospital today for a broken hip that required emergency surgery. The PT coughed, the hospital staff said they want to list PT as COVID-19. The PT's guardian refused absent a test, they tested and it came back negative, currently they still want to list patent as covid so they said they'll test again soon... This might go on until they get a positive.  They were not going to give any different care, just wanted some more money.
Please stop. There is a ton of evidence that cases are actually being severely undercounted. What is this agenda you keep pushing about how not deadly it is? What do you stand to gain? Because you know someone who coughed upon entry to a hospital, and shock of all shocks, they want to make sure the patient isnít positive for COVID before treating?!

Offline KSMH

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2020, 03:01:59 PM »
Please stop. There is a ton of evidence that cases are actually being severely undercounted. What is this agenda you keep pushing about how not deadly it is? What do you stand to gain? Because you know someone who coughed upon entry to a hospital, and shock of all shocks, they want to make sure the patient isnít positive for COVID before treating?!

That's not what I said.

This is 1st hand info, they are not worried the patient has covid they did not take a single precaution for this specific PT, they just want a designation of covid-19 on PT record.

You can argue all you want but its happening.
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline S209

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2020, 03:04:15 PM »
That's not what I said.

This is 1st hand info, they are not worried the patient has covid they did not take a single precaution for this specific PT, they just want a designation of covid-19 on PT record.

You can argue all you want but its happening.
How do you know they donít want to know for treatment regimen and for personal protection?

Offline KSMH

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2020, 03:08:20 PM »
How do you know they donít want to know for treatment regimen and for personal protection?

They would've taken protective measures immediately upon suspicion of Covid and why/how can they just list some one as covid because they coughed once in 3 hours?
Even after the negative test they are insisting upon a covid designation and will retest.

When Cuomo said, we are not seeing many patients for anything but Covid-19, it left me wondering how true that is, but no more. Sure the #'s are down for regular stuff but at the rate he claimed?? 
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Offline S209

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2020, 03:10:00 PM »
They would've taken protective measures immediately upon suspicion of Covid and why/how can they just list some one as covid because they coughed once in 3 hours?
Even after the negative test they are insisting upon a covid designation and will retest.

When Cuomo said, we are not seeing many patients for anything but Covid-19, it left me wondering how true that is, but no more. Sure the #'s are down for regular stuff but at the rate he claimed??
Many people are staying home unless absolutely necessary, myself included

Online aygart

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2020, 03:13:49 PM »
We are seeing many people trying to bring out all of these different numbers about how more or fewer people this that and the other thing. They are all an exercise in futility. There is one number which is not able to be skewed at all and is the one number which matters. That is how there were so many more deaths over these last few weeks than any other year and any other time period.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2020, 03:16:56 PM »
We are seeing many people trying to bring out all of these different numbers about how more or fewer people this that and the other thing. They are all an exercise in futility. There is one number which is not able to be skewed at all and is the one number which matters. That is how there were so many more deaths over these last few weeks than any other year and any other time period.
Unfortunately, that number is far higher than the official COVID death count.. it has skyrocketed

Online aygart

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2020, 03:20:32 PM »
Unfortunately, that number is far higher than the official COVID death count.. it has skyrocketed
Yes and that is why my answer to anyone who starts with these skewed number conversations I tell them to ignore ALL virus numbers and just look at deaths. You want to call it something else-go ahead.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2020, 03:26:09 PM »
Number of deaths will drive what we do next.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Sport

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2020, 03:40:43 PM »
We are seeing many people trying to bring out all of these different numbers about how more or fewer people this that and the other thing. They are all an exercise in futility. There is one number which is not able to be skewed at all and is the one number which matters. That is how there were so many more deaths over these last few weeks than any other year and any other time period.
Yup, see the nyt article I posted in other thread.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2020, 03:50:15 PM »
We are seeing many people trying to bring out all of these different numbers about how more or fewer people this that and the other thing. They are all an exercise in futility. There is one number which is not able to be skewed at all and is the one number which matters. That is how there were so many more deaths over these last few weeks than any other year and any other time period.

Anyone who compared this to the flu is way off base.

That being said, the numbers game is being played in so many different ways by politicians. Every update announces a running tally of positives. Relatively meaningless numbers that reflect the availability of testing more than anything. Thatís why you see some states that appear to have 10% mortality rates. How about this? Test only those with severe breathing distress symptoms and admitted to ICU and I will show you 60% mortality rates for the virus.

Random antibody testing and new hospital admissions and intubations should be the gold standard and really the only standard of measure. Deaths and excess deaths are somewhat helpful but mostly a lagging indicator. Actually positive tests MAY be marginally helpful not as a raw number to hype, but when put in context of testing trends and percent positive trends. Politicians are highlighting positive numbers as if they still all exist. There are not 126,000 positive cases in New Jersey right now. There are a fraction of that number who are still positive.

What we need to be provided with is localized hard numbers. How many transports to hospitals in the last three days in Lakewood? Was there even a single one? How many hospitalizations in a county are from the general population and relevant to the public at large and how many are from nursing homes and less relevant to the general population? Everything else is pretty much hype or manipulation of numbers to the point that the data is relatively meaningless. I get that politicians want to hype it so people will be scared out of a sense of complacency but its really  time to depoliticize the data by comparing it to the Korean War hurricane Sandy 911 or whatever and release specific hard numbers and trends to the public regardless of whether they support the current plan of action.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 04:03:23 PM by Yard sale »

Offline S209

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2020, 06:22:49 PM »
Anyone who compared this to the flu is way off base.

That being said, the numbers game is being played in so many different ways by politicians. Every update announces a running tally of positives. Relatively meaningless numbers that reflect the availability of testing more than anything. Thatís why you see some states that appear to have 10% mortality rates. How about this? Test only those with severe breathing distress symptoms and admitted to ICU and I will show you 60% mortality rates for the virus.

Random antibody testing and new hospital admissions and intubations should be the gold standard and really the only standard of measure. Deaths and excess deaths are somewhat helpful but mostly a lagging indicator. Actually positive tests MAY be marginally helpful not as a raw number to hype, but when put in context of testing trends and percent positive trends. Politicians are highlighting positive numbers as if they still all exist. There are not 126,000 positive cases in New Jersey right now. There are a fraction of that number who are still positive.

What we need to be provided with is localized hard numbers. How many transports to hospitals in the last three days in Lakewood? Was there even a single one? How many hospitalizations in a county are from the general population and relevant to the public at large and how many are from nursing homes and less relevant to the general population? Everything else is pretty much hype or manipulation of numbers to the point that the data is relatively meaningless. I get that politicians want to hype it so people will be scared out of a sense of complacency but its really  time to depoliticize the data by comparing it to the Korean War hurricane Sandy 911 or whatever and release specific hard numbers and trends to the public regardless of whether they support the current plan of action.
There is a lot of truth in your post but excess deaths is a great indicator of the amount of people that died as a direct result of the virus. If thatís the number weíre looking for, thatís the data to look at.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2020, 07:16:26 PM »
There is a lot of truth in your post but excess deaths is a great indicator of the amount of people that died as a direct result of the virus. If thatís the number weíre looking for, thatís the data to look at.

Correct.

Offline KSMH

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2020, 10:58:51 PM »
Always praying for delayed baggage.

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2020, 11:03:11 PM »
So why were there so many more people dying over this time period than any other year? Much more than the virus numbers account for?

Anything asking to be made viral probably doesn't deserve it.
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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2020, 11:06:42 PM »

Sad... I kinda liked her before her Covid opinions.
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Offline Lurker

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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2020, 11:08:33 PM »

There are many many covid deaths going unreported as well. Both people who had it and died from it without getting tested, and people who died because covid caused them to be unable to get treated for other issues. I'm not saying it's a wash, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

Then there's also the issue of where you draw the line. For instance, on paper I can show you a man in his 90s battling cancer and other issues who died with covid - you might want him taken out of the covid stats, right? But in real life, he was a Rosh Yeshivah coming in to teach every day, and even though not giving a shiur every day like in years past, he gave a shiur at least once a week. How many hundreds would be on that list rather than the hospice list?
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Offline menachemd1

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Re: Covid-19 # are skewed
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2020, 11:11:34 PM »
There are many many covid deaths going unreported as well.
Don't they test everyone after death ?