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« Last edited by Iz on May 05, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)  (Read 44943 times)

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #100 on: May 03, 2020, 09:52:10 PM »
Are you a Doctor of infectious diseases? Who would you like to call the shots? The one with the most likes on DDF or who is in the most watsapp groups?  Rabbi Brown, Rabbi Jeager and Rabbi Forst (from the 3 biggest talmidi chachumim in our community) all agree with him. (Maybe they are all liberals too?)


Unless you have another qualified expert in the community - this man should continue to be calling the shots.
Those three Rabbis were and are heavily and unnecessarily scared and alarmed by mainly two local doctors. But this is not a local issue and other doctors around the world can also be trusted. These doctors are worse than Fauci in this area. They might be well meaning, but they are alarmists. Just a small example: When doctors call for six feet to be safe, the letter this Friday from our locals required 8 to 10 feet. All over the country health officials are permitting minyanim, but not here.There are also some very great local Rabbis who consult with their own professionals and came to different conclusions. They are just not as vocal. Even some of the Rabbis who are on the conference call with Rabbi Dr. Glatt and some who even sign those papers (out of pressure) are either conducting minyanim or davening with one three times a day locally.

What is this thing about "Unless you have another qualified expert in the community"? Just because he lives here does not make him the top doctor. I haven't seen any national media quote any of our locals yet.

Another interesting thing is that you have some local doctors telling Rabbis to demand everyone over two years old wear a mask when taking a walk on Shabbos, and these doctors and their own families do not abied by these strict self-imposed rules themselves.


Offline mochjas

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #101 on: May 03, 2020, 10:45:23 PM »
Those three Rabbis were and are heavily and unnecessarily scared and alarmed by mainly two local doctors. But this is not a local issue and other doctors around the world can also be trusted. These doctors are worse than Fauci in this area. They might be well meaning, but they are alarmists. Just a small example: When doctors call for six feet to be safe, the letter this Friday from our locals required 8 to 10 feet. All over the country health officials are permitting minyanim, but not here.There are also some very great local Rabbis who consult with their own professionals and came to different conclusions. They are just not as vocal. Even some of the Rabbis who are on the conference call with Rabbi Dr. Glatt and some who even sign those papers (out of pressure) are either conducting minyanim or davening with one three times a day locally.

What is this thing about "Unless you have another qualified expert in the community"? Just because he lives here does not make him the top doctor. I haven't seen any national media quote any of our locals yet.

Another interesting thing is that you have some local doctors telling Rabbis to demand everyone over two years old wear a mask when taking a walk on Shabbos, and these doctors and their own families do not abied by these strict self-imposed rules themselves.
unnecessarily scared? Did you miss the part where over 65K people died already? Are there not enough people who passed away? What is wrong with being extra careful to save lives?

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #102 on: May 03, 2020, 11:20:48 PM »
Those three Rabbis were and are heavily and unnecessarily scared and alarmed by mainly two local doctors. But this is not a local issue and other doctors around the world can also be trusted. These doctors are worse than Fauci in this area. They might be well meaning, but they are alarmists. Just a small example: When doctors call for six feet to be safe, the letter this Friday from our locals required 8 to 10 feet. All over the country health officials are permitting minyanim, but not here.There are also some very great local Rabbis who consult with their own professionals and came to different conclusions. They are just not as vocal. Even some of the Rabbis who are on the conference call with Rabbi Dr. Glatt and some who even sign those papers (out of pressure) are either conducting minyanim or davening with one three times a day locally.

What is this thing about "Unless you have another qualified expert in the community"? Just because he lives here does not make him the top doctor. I haven't seen any national media quote any of our locals yet.

Another interesting thing is that you have some local doctors telling Rabbis to demand everyone over two years old wear a mask when taking a walk on Shabbos, and these doctors and their own families do not abied by these strict self-imposed rules themselves.

Huh? You decided that these brilliant scholars were unnecessarily scared?! Who are you? What are your credentials and qualifications? How can you ever go to one of these leading poskim and ask them a shailah if you think they are so easily swayed by people who you think are clearly in the wrong.

I wish you will but I vehemently pray that you never hold a position of any sort of authority or influence  or I am afraid of the consequences.

The hubris you display is astonishing. Pray tell what is your education, occupation - where does this come from? If we are arguing about airline points then fine whatever, but in a literal life and death situation you have had the complete confidence to drag in the dirt the name of every esteemed rabbi and doctor in the community.

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #103 on: May 03, 2020, 11:27:23 PM »
unnecessarily scared? Did you miss the part where over 65K people died already? Are there not enough people who passed away? What is wrong with being extra careful to save lives?

I see it worked. You are scared.

First of all, the entire social distancing thing is not proven to help at all. Many experts believe it actually harms the situation.

Second of all, in NYS all deaths are considered Covid deaths now, even without being tested for Covid. They do this in order to keep the numbers high. In addition, if during flue season they would run around testing people to see if they are asymptomatic to the flue, we would have an even higher number of flue patients and even deaths.

Our numbers are down now. When Cuomo says we have 290 deaths, he means that's how many people died that day in NYS. He does not tell us how many people die on a regular fie before this plague or during the flue season.. There are also many deaths in nursing homes daily. Those deaths are greatly due to Cuomo's executive order sending elderly Covid patients to the homes instead of the hospital. He sent them to a facility where everyone  there was supsestable to the worst.

At this point, at least 85% of NY was exposed. There is very little danger davening with a minyan or walking withut a mask. It's mainly media and democratic hype.

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #104 on: May 03, 2020, 11:33:27 PM »
I see it worked. You are scared.

First of all, the entire social distancing thing is not proven to help at all. Many experts believe it actually harms the situation.

Second of all, in NYS all deaths are considered Covid deaths now, even without being tested for Covid. They do this in order to keep the numbers high. In addition, if during flue season they would run around testing people to see if they are asymptomatic to the flue, we would have an even higher number of flue patients and even deaths.

 Our numbers are down now. When Cuomo says we have 290 deaths, he means that's how many people died that day in NYS. He does not tell us how many people die on a regular fie before this plague or during the flue season.. There are also many deaths in nursing homes daily. Those deaths are greatly due to Cuomo's executive order sending elderly Covid patients to the homes instead of the hospital. He sent them to a facility where everyone  there was supsestable to the worst.

At this point, at least 85% of NY was exposed. There is very little danger davening with a minyan or walking withut a mask. It's mainly media and democratic hype.

Maskim maskim - Also - I took  the pills that Alex Jones from infowars was selling that protects one from the coronavirus AND I donated to kupat haeir so Iím all ready for a nice packed minyan (maybe we do in front of Rabbi Brownís house to show him how unnecessarily scared he is).

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #105 on: May 03, 2020, 11:36:28 PM »
Huh? You decided that these brilliant scholars were unnecessarily scared?! Who are you? What are your credentials and qualifications? How can you ever go to one of these leading poskim and ask them a shailah if you think they are so easily swayed by people who you think are clearly in the wrong.

I wish you will but I vehemently pray that you never hold a position of any sort of authority or influence  or I am afraid of the consequences.

The hubris you display is astonishing. Pray tell what is your education, occupation - where does this come from? If we are arguing about airline points then fine whatever, but in a literal life and death situation you have had the complete confidence to drag in the dirt the name of every esteemed rabbi and doctor in the community.

There is a machlokes here. Locally and nationwide. Each scholar and Rabbi is relying on their doctors and rightfully so. The great scholars in Lakewood and most of Brooklyn are getting their information from other professionals and seem to be coming out with a different conclusion.

Every Rabbi must take the advice offered to him from their sources. And everyone must follow their own Rabbi. I just wish these professional here would chill a little.

The Rabbis I ask my questions to have different opinions than the ones you mentioned. The frum mediai also pushing an agenda. Just don't fool yourself and don't listen to the media. You would be surprised how many great scholars and Rabbis nationwide and worldwide (and locally) are taking a different approach.

Why is what I say referred to as hubris, but you can't even understand or validate the opinion of the majority of Rabbis. I understand there are two sides. You don't.

Offline joeb1

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2020, 11:38:13 PM »
Iím not taking sides here as Iím enjoying the nightly pop corn chat but from what I hear if the 5T local doctors giving advice would get their way (which they may get for some sides of the aisle) they will close shuls until we have no memory of corona. (Not tanking months ... talking a lot longer)
Heard first hand for all those asking my source

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #107 on: May 03, 2020, 11:39:55 PM »
Maskim maskim - Also - I took  the pills that Alex Jones from infowars was selling that protects one from the coronavirus AND I donated to kupat haeir so Iím all ready for a nice packed minyan (maybe we do in front of Rabbi Brownís house to show him how unnecessarily scared he is).

You got it wrong. Only one side is using the intimidating tactics. And it is not the Rabbis on that side doing it either.

Since most of us have antibodies by now, according to Dr. Fauci there is almost no chance for us to get it again right now. (I know R/D Glatt disagrees) So according to the top expert in the country, we can have pretty large safe minyonim composed of anitbody-tested only men.

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2020, 11:41:16 PM »
It's also interesting to note that the only thing people are actually listening to is no minyan. :-\
There are individuals who are following the rules (myself included) but a cursory glance around (and on WhatsApp statuses) will show plenty of mixing, especially in nice weather.

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #109 on: May 03, 2020, 11:41:52 PM »
There is a machlokes here. Locally and nationwide. Each scholar and Rabbi is relying on their doctors and rightfully so. The great scholars in Lakewood and most of Brooklyn are getting their information from other professionals and seem to be coming out with a different conclusion.

Every Rabbi must take the advice offered to him from their sources. And everyone must follow their own Rabbi. I just wish these professional here would chill a little.

The Rabbis I ask my questions to have different opinions than the ones you mentioned. The frum mediai also pushing an agenda. Just don't fool yourself and don't listen to the media. You would be surprised how many great scholars and Rabbis nationwide and worldwide (and locally) are taking a different approach.

Why is what I say referred to as hubris, but you can't even understand or validate the opinion of the majority of Rabbis. I understand there are two sides. You don't.

As someone who lost close ones to this I for one am very happy that our professionals wonít CHILL during a pandemic but make decisions based on on facts. We also closed down much earlier than Lakewood and Brooklyn- I have no problem in being in a more enlightened community. From someone who has lived here his whole life I can tell you we were never Lakewood or Brooklyn and I am glad our Rabbis are still deciding things for themselves not based on what Lakewood and Brooklyn is doing.

If you are looking for more that style - please go ahead - this community may not be for you.

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #110 on: May 03, 2020, 11:45:54 PM »
You got it wrong. Only one side is using the intimidating tactics. And it is not the Rabbis on that side doing it either.

Since most of us have antibodies by now, according to Dr. Fauci there is almost no chance for us to get it again right now. (I know R/D Glatt disagrees) So according to the top expert in the country, we can have pretty large safe minyonim composed of anitbody-tested only men.

Dr Fauci said there is almost no chance of catching the virus now?

Offline joeb1

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #111 on: May 03, 2020, 11:47:53 PM »
If itís sakanos Nefeshos and being a rodeif why are they not shutting entire down down
Supermarkets and babysitters etc
Itís one way or the other
Saying two wrong is not a right is not mehalach
Going nuclear on minyanim is fine if advice you are getting is that itís killing ppl but be consistent or shutting minyanim is pointless

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #112 on: May 03, 2020, 11:50:21 PM »
If itís sakanos Nefeshos and being a rodeif why are they not shutting entire down down
Supermarkets and babysitters etc
Itís one way or the other
Saying two wrong is not a right is not mehalach
Going nuclear on minyanim is fine if advice you are getting is that itís killing ppl but be consistent or shutting minyanim is pointless

Why is it not a mehalach? How is it pointless? More people together the more is spreads. Supermarkets are bad but you got to eat, cleaning ladies are bad and Iíve seen rabbis say that. But how can you tell me that having minyanim and causing even more people to gather and pass on the virus is not bad as well?

Offline joeb1

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #113 on: May 03, 2020, 11:52:18 PM »
Like my wife tells me when I do 1/2 job ...... fill in the rest

Offline joeb1

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #114 on: May 03, 2020, 11:53:02 PM »
Why is it not a mehalach? How is it pointless? More people together the more is spreads. Supermarkets are bad but you got to eat, cleaning ladies are bad and Iíve seen rabbis say that. But how can you tell me that having minyanim and causing even more people to gather and pass on the virus is not bad as well?

A small controlled outdoor minyan will be easier to control than walking in to gg

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #115 on: May 03, 2020, 11:55:41 PM »
Like my wife tells me when I do 1/2 job ...... fill in the rest

Actually not like your wife tells you at all. The more people gather the more it spreads ergo we try to do all we can to stop gatherings. Every gathering is a problem so having one has no shaychis at all to other gatherings.

Otherwise I agreed 100% with your wife - you should just finish the damn job once you started. Not a help to her if you dump the clean laundry out but donít fold it.

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #116 on: May 03, 2020, 11:56:31 PM »
A small controlled outdoor minyan will be easier to control than walking in to gg

And we can buy groceries at this minyan? Cmon man complete the thought here

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #117 on: May 03, 2020, 11:58:59 PM »
And we can buy groceries at this minyan? Cmon man complete the thought here
We can all participate in the 5t market though. Or get delivered from seasons if gg is full

Offline S209

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #118 on: May 03, 2020, 11:59:07 PM »
Source please. My Rabeim who were from Europe told me woman did not even go to shul. I do not believe women said kaddish in Shul min most of Europe.
My father in law who heard R Moshe say it

Offline joeb1

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #119 on: May 03, 2020, 11:59:51 PM »
No Iím pointing out that they are fighting 1. The wrong battle 2. Fight the whole battle if feel itís do or die  not 1/2  3. When you overdo things ppl slowly take you less seriously
All sep points all  legit
I do necessarily disagree with rabbis and doctors Iím just amused how they chose to go nuclear on minyanim ignoring way more serious issues and also not trying to compromise (which will ultimately lead to many ignoring them outright shortly which is even more dangerous )