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« Last edited by Iz on May 05, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)  (Read 48183 times)

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #140 on: May 04, 2020, 08:02:14 AM »
I see it worked. You are scared.

First of all, the entire social distancing thing is not proven to help at all. Many experts believe it actually harms the situation.

Second of all, in NYS all deaths are considered Covid deaths now, even without being tested for Covid. They do this in order to keep the numbers high. In addition, if during flue season they would run around testing people to see if they are asymptomatic to the flue, we would have an even higher number of flue patients and even deaths.

Our numbers are down now. When Cuomo says we have 290 deaths, he means that's how many people died that day in NYS. He does not tell us how many people die on a regular fie before this plague or during the flue season.. There are also many deaths in nursing homes daily. Those deaths are greatly due to Cuomo's executive order sending elderly Covid patients to the homes instead of the hospital. He sent them to a facility where everyone  there was supsestable to the worst.

At this point, at least 85% of NY was exposed. There is very little danger davening with a minyan or walking withut a mask. It's mainly media and democratic hype.
Youíre completely off your rocker. I was following this conversation without knowing the internal community politics and I thought you sounded somewhat ignorant.. and then this.

Are you nuts?! Are you seriously still spewing this stuff? How many Rabbanim, doctors, friends, and relatives do you need to lose before you WAKE UP?!

If it walks like a nut, and talks like a nut, your opinion just doesnít count at all. I wouldnít care ordinarily but youíre endangering other people. I see why that Rav called the police. YOU. ARE. NUTS.
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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #141 on: May 04, 2020, 08:50:47 AM »
Youíre completely off your rocker. I was following this conversation without knowing the internal community politics and I thought you sounded somewhat ignorant.. and then this.

Are you nuts?! Are you seriously still spewing this stuff? How many Rabbanim, doctors, friends, and relatives do you need to lose before you WAKE UP?!

If it walks like a nut, and talks like a nut, your opinion just doesnít count at all. I wouldnít care ordinarily but youíre endangering other people. I see why that Rav called the police. YOU. ARE. NUTS.
Almost everything you said cN be said back to you from the other side. Including, they would say, that you are endangering people's lives by banning minyanim and albeit not their fault closing Yeshivas. There is a G-d factor which should take a roll here too. Without Him this won't stop. If it can be done in a safe way, one real good Amen Yehei Shmei Ramah is more powerful than all the medical intervention.

You are proving my point. One side understands there are two side, and take a position. But some on the other side have an agenda and therefor cannot even hear there is an argument here.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2020, 09:19:25 AM »
There is a G-d factor which should take a roll here too. Without Him this won't stop. If it can be done in a safe way, one real good Amen Yehei Shmei Ramah is more powerful than all the medical intervention.
Stop making your own personal silly cheshbonos of the God factor.
BH the 5Towns/Rockaway have unanimous Rabbinic concent and strong united leadership to guide their community through this crisis.
Daas Torah should guide. Not you.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2020, 09:39:39 AM »
Almost everything you said cN be said back to you from the other side. Including, they would say, that you are endangering people's lives by banning minyanim and albeit not their fault closing Yeshivas. There is a G-d factor which should take a roll here too. Without Him this won't stop. If it can be done in a safe way, one real good Amen Yehei Shmei Ramah is more powerful than all the medical intervention.

You are proving my point. One side understands there are two side, and take a position. But some on the other side have an agenda and therefor cannot even hear there is an argument here.
No, you literally arenít. I davened Shacharis with a minyan today for the first time in months after consultation with a Rav and doctor in a safe manner on my property with us and a neighbor, and I donít live in 5T. I fully understand and appreciate daas Torah deciding to permit some Minyanim AFTER becoming informed of the facts on the ground and consulting with medical experts. I have nothing to do with your politics or the Rabbanim in your city.

All that said, you are spewing such dangerous garbage that you need to be called out. I get it, youíre ignorant of the facts. But you DONíT get to have an opinion if you donít do the research first.

How can you have the audacity to refer to this as anything remotely similar to the flu? Have you completely lost your way in life? How often do this many people you know and love die in one fell swoop? You think the media killed them? The ďmore modernĒ Rabbanim? Who exactly do you blame for their deaths? You know who it was? YOU and your actions.

Hashem does not want your Tefilllos betzibur if you are endangering other people. Your Amein Yehei Shmei Rabbah is a mitzvah habah beíaveira, and is WORSE than staying silent, should you be needlessly placing LIVES in danger. Donít pretend to have God on your side, as if this is some grand debate between good and evil. Believe me, EVERY Rav who assured Minyan believes they are doing the right thing as far as Yiddishkeit is concerned (and theyíre probably right). That doesnít mean itís not up for debate whether minyanim can occur in a safe manner, without endangering people. Iím not the Posek Acharon. It doesnít matter whoís right or wrong. What matters is that youíre too thick to understand the consequences of your actions and words, and are recklessly disregarding an obvious and overwhelming danger.
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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #144 on: May 04, 2020, 09:52:26 AM »
Stop making your own personal silly cheshbonos of the God factor.
BH the 5Towns/Rockaway have unanimous Rabbinic concent and strong united leadership to guide their community through this crisis.
Daas Torah should guide. Not you.

It's not unanimous. Do your homework. In Daas Torah there is a machlokes. Most disagree with you, but you do have some great people to rely on.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2020, 09:57:29 AM »
No, you literally arenít. I davened Shacharis with a minyan today for the first time in months after consultation with a Rav and doctor in a safe manner on my property with us and a neighbor, and I donít live in 5T. I fully understand and appreciate daas Torah deciding to permit some Minyanim AFTER becoming informed of the facts on the ground and consulting with medical experts. I have nothing to do with your politics or the Rabbanim in your city.

All that said, you are spewing such dangerous garbage that you need to be called out. I get it, youíre ignorant of the facts. But you DONíT get to have an opinion if you donít do the research first.

How can you have the audacity to refer to this as anything remotely similar to the flu? Have you completely lost your way in life? How often do this many people you know and love die in one fell swoop? You think the media killed them? The ďmore modernĒ Rabbanim? Who exactly do you blame for their deaths? You know who it was? YOU and your actions.

Hashem does not want your Tefilllos betzibur if you are endangering other people. Your Amein Yehei Shmei Rabbah is a mitzvah habah beíaveira, and is WORSE than staying silent, should you be needlessly placing LIVES in danger. Donít pretend to have God on your side, as if this is some grand debate between good and evil. Believe me, EVERY Rav who assured Minyan believes they are doing the right thing as far as Yiddishkeit is concerned (and theyíre probably right). That doesnít mean itís not up for debate whether minyanim can occur in a safe manner, without endangering people. Iím not the Posek Acharon. It doesnít matter whoís right or wrong. What matters is that youíre too thick to understand the consequences of your actions and words, and are recklessly disregarding an obvious and overwhelming danger.

First of all, I am very well educated on the issue and very well informed.

But it is obvious from what you write that you came in them middle if the conversation and did not read through the thread. You are taking one comment out of context. (Do you work for CNN?!?) Name calling and throwing insults before reading the entire thread is foolish and stupid. 

And by the way, according to many on this thread, you committed a cardinal sin by davening with a minyan this morning.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2020, 10:31:00 AM »
Almost everything you said cN be said back to you from the other side. Including, they would say, that you are endangering people's lives by banning minyanim and albeit not their fault closing Yeshivas. There is a G-d factor which should take a roll here too. Without Him this won't stop. If it can be done in a safe way, one real good Amen Yehei Shmei Ramah is more powerful than all the medical intervention.

You are proving my point. One side understands there are two side, and take a position. But some on the other side have an agenda and therefor cannot even hear there is an argument here.

My friend you have a lot of issues but the gaivah one is particularly appalling. You have a greater appreciation of the power of amain yehia shmai rabbah than Rabbi Finer, Rabbi Brown, Rabbi Forst, Rabbi Perr, Rabbi Jeager, Rabbi Stern, etc. (I wonít mention any of the YU trained Rabbinim who most certainly do not come close to your stature).

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2020, 10:32:47 AM »
I see it worked. You are scared.

First of all, the entire social distancing thing is not proven to help at all. Many experts believe it actually harms the situation.

Second of all, in NYS all deaths are considered Covid deaths now, even without being tested for Covid. They do this in order to keep the numbers high. In addition, if during flue season they would run around testing people to see if they are asymptomatic to the flue, we would have an even higher number of flue patients and even deaths.

Our numbers are down now. When Cuomo says we have 290 deaths, he means that's how many people died that day in NYS. He does not tell us how many people die on a regular fie before this plague or during the flue season.. There are also many deaths in nursing homes daily. Those deaths are greatly due to Cuomo's executive order sending elderly Covid patients to the homes instead of the hospital. He sent them to a facility where everyone  there was supsestable to the worst.

At this point, at least 85% of NY was exposed. There is very little danger davening with a minyan or walking withut a mask. It's mainly media and democratic hype.
Anyone who can say any of these things is FAR from
First of all, I am very well educated on the issue and very well informed.

But it is obvious from what you write that you came in them middle if the conversation and did not read through the thread. You are taking one comment out of context. (Do you work for CNN?!?) Name calling and throwing insults before reading the entire thread is foolish and stupid. 

And by the way, according to many on this thread, you committed a cardinal sin by davening with a minyan this morning.
I did not read through everything, but I have followed for a few pages. I didnít interject until now but when you write things like that, I see red. Name calling and throwing insults is ALWAYS wrong, except when oneís words and actions are literally putting peoples lives in danger. Then itís fully warranted and acceptable.
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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2020, 10:34:58 AM »
It's not unanimous. Do your homework. In Daas Torah there is a machlokes. Most disagree with you, but you do have some great people to rely on.
There is NO MACHLOKES as to the danger, nor is there room for such. If anyone tells you otherwise, lock them in a room alone and throw away the key. There is only debate as to the proper method of dealing with it.
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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2020, 11:43:37 AM »
There is NO MACHLOKES as to the danger, nor is there room for such. If anyone tells you otherwise, lock them in a room alone and throw away the key. There is only debate as to the proper method of dealing with it.
It is clear that you and Mr. Reefs are CNN followers. I assume your ate anti Trumpers etc. too. You only listen to one side, cannot even register that there is science which questions this entire approach. You feel that anybody that disagrees with you doesn't deserve to live.

Typical liberals.

There is nobody to talk to because you are so set on your ways and so brainwashed you cannot even fathom there is another opinion. Both on science and Daas Torah.

It is clear that you and Mr. Reedss

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2020, 11:51:16 AM »
My friend you have a lot of issues but the gaivah one is particularly appalling. You have a greater appreciation of the power of amain yehia shmai rabbah than Rabbi Finer, Rabbi Brown, Rabbi Forst, Rabbi Perr, Rabbi Jeager, Rabbi Stern, etc. (I wonít mention any of the YU trained Rabbinim who most certainly do not come close to your stature).

Mr. Liberal, why are you having such a hard time accepting there are many people including some very great Rabbis who disagree with the four you mentioned. I am not the one with a gaiva problem. I am able to see this as a two side machlokes. You are not.

I am also not able to rate Rabbis, who is greater and who is even greater. I respect them all. I also belive if our local doctors would stop scaring and harassing these Rabonim, they would also level down a bit. (Yes, I know for a fact these doctors are extremely persistent and don't let up)

If the Rabonim I consult with have an opinion, which in this case I happens to be the majority opinion, I could and should blindly follow their opinion. At the same time I completely respect those who follow the Great Rabonim on the other side even if they are the minority opinion. They are great People and I have the utmost respect for them.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2020, 11:52:09 AM »
Let's make this simple. You seem to have a wealth of information on both rabbonim and doctors in the 5T/FR community that disagree with the rabbonim/doctors advocating the strict guidelines. Tell us who they are. We can talk to them and gain a better understanding of the 'other side', as you put it. The people on one side are public, and can be contacted to discuss these matters. It's not a conversation, not 2 sides, if only one side will talk to people.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2020, 11:59:52 AM »
So @sammyp is it about G-D or about liberals?

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2020, 12:00:25 PM »
Let's make this simple. You seem to have a wealth of information on both rabbonim and doctors in the 5T/FR community that disagree with the rabbonim/doctors advocating the strict guidelines. Tell us who they are. We can talk to them and gain a better understanding of the 'other side', as you put it. The people on one side are public, and can be contacted to discuss these matters. It's not a conversation, not 2 sides, if only one side will talk to people.

You need to do your own homework. You can begin by speaking with some of our local Rabonim, very respectable Rabonim who are davening by or conducting minyanim daily.(Some of them somehow had their names signed on that paper somehow too)

When you are done locally,  you can call the ones in Brooklyn, Lakewood, Eretz Yisroel and around the world and ask them why and how they disagree with our Rabbis.

I did my homework. I spent time speaking to and listening to lectures and shiurim which I got ahold of. I read many articles, many written in Hebrew.

Again, I follow my personal Rabonim. So should you. But don't look down or degrade those who follow the other opinion. At least acknowledge there might be another side. 85% of the frum world can be so wrong.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2020, 12:04:50 PM »
You need to do your own homework. You can begin by speaking with some of our local Rabonim, very respectable Rabonim who are davening by or conducting minyanim daily.(Some of them somehow had their names signed on that paper somehow too)

When you are done locally,  you can call the ones in Brooklyn, Lakewood, Eretz Yisroel and around the world and ask them why and how they disagree with our Rabbis.

I did my homework. I spent time speaking to and listening to lectures and shiurim which I got ahold of. I read many articles, many written in Hebrew.

Again, I follow my personal Rabonim. So should you. But don't look down or degrade those who follow the other opinion. At least acknowledge there might be another side. 85% of the frum world can be so wrong.
Tell me, did you learn how to count when you were listening to conservative talk shows, too?

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #155 on: May 04, 2020, 12:12:50 PM »
Let's make this simple. You seem to have a wealth of information on both rabbonim and doctors in the 5T/FR community that disagree with the rabbonim/doctors advocating the strict guidelines. Tell us who they are. We can talk to them and gain a better understanding of the 'other side', as you put it. The people on one side are public, and can be contacted to discuss these matters. It's not a conversation, not 2 sides, if only one side will talk to people.
Exactly. Let's see their letters and guidelines.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #156 on: May 04, 2020, 12:15:27 PM »
Exactly. Let's see their letters and guidelines.

Some post adapted and updated guidelines every Friday. Thank you for acknowledging you did absolutely no research.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #157 on: May 04, 2020, 12:16:58 PM »
Some post adapted and updated guidelines every Friday. Thank you for acknowledging you did absolutely no research.
Please post or share them. Why aren't they as public as the ones signed by almost 100 Rabbanim? Hmmm

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #158 on: May 04, 2020, 12:20:43 PM »
Please post or share them. Why aren't they as public as the ones signed by almost 100 Rabbanim? Hmmm

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #159 on: May 04, 2020, 12:30:21 PM »

This is Lakewood, not 5 Towns/Rockaway.