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The substantial substance of your sustained subsistent substance has subdued me into subversion.

« Last edited by Iz on May 05, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)  (Read 48171 times)

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #160 on: May 04, 2020, 12:56:19 PM »
Please post or share them. Why aren't they as public as the ones signed by almost 100 Rabbanim? Hmmm
Because they don't have an agenda. The ones who post and spread it here are not the Rabonim mentioned earlier. They were just asked to sign.

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #161 on: May 04, 2020, 12:58:29 PM »
This is Lakewood, not 5 Towns/Rockaway.
We are all in the same boat. Halacha doesn't change by location when situation is the same.

That is why some of our doctors hounded the Lakewood Rabbis and doctors tring to pressure them to take back their peak. They know what these doctors hold, and they still passed the way they do

Offline JMHO

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #162 on: May 04, 2020, 01:01:12 PM »
Because they don't have an agenda. The ones who post and spread it here are not the Rabonim mentioned earlier. They were just asked to sign.
Wow, this shows how clueless you are. Please keep your narishkeit in Lakewood.

Offline S209

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #163 on: May 04, 2020, 01:23:30 PM »
We are all in the same boat. Halacha doesn't change by location when situation is the same.

That is why some of our doctors hounded the Lakewood Rabbis and doctors tring to pressure them to take back their peak. They know what these doctors hold, and they still passed the way they do
Halacha certainly changes by location, if there is more danger in one place Halacha would change accordingly. Misinformed statement number 1.
Because they don't have an agenda. The ones who post and spread it here are not the Rabonim mentioned earlier. They were just asked to sign.
Agenda? We are talking about paskening a Halacha for the tzibur on a questionable subject which is up for debate. Did the Chofetz Chaim have an agenda when he published Mishna Berura?
85% of the frum world can be so wrong.
Source? I maintain 315% of poskim say no minyan
It is clear that you and Mr. Reefs are CNN followers. I assume your ate anti Trumpers etc. too. You only listen to one side, cannot even register that there is science which questions this entire approach. You feel that anybody that disagrees with you doesn't deserve to live.

Typical liberals.

There is nobody to talk to because you are so set on your ways and so brainwashed you cannot even fathom there is another opinion. Both on science and Daas Torah.

It is clear that you and Mr. Reedss
There is so much wrong with this post I could spend hours, but Iíll spare you. Here are 3 thoughts, though.

A) You couldnít be more wrong about my political beliefs and viewing/listening habits. So much for your generalizations and assumptions.

B) Please quote one post where I didnít acknowledge there being two sides to the METHOD of approaching this. I explicitly posted that I davened with a minyan today. If you claim that there are those who disagree as to the inherent danger, youíll have to do more than just label us all CNN watchers (is that a dirty word now?). Iíll use the deaths of my grandmother, childrenís pediatrician, 2 close family friends, and over a dozen friends and family members of mine sitting Shiva as proof off the REAL, ACTUAL DANGER. Your turn. I bless you that you never feel the extent of the devastation I have.

C) There is absolutely no ďscienceĒ in the world that questions this. Youíll need to back yourself up if you claim there is. Rush and Hannity doesnít count as scientists. Every single country in the world that has been hit has adopted social distancing measures, some to a greater extent than others. Itíll interest you to find out that there is a direct correlation between firm, decisive, early lockdowns and low death rates, not that you would need evidence, as itís also inherently logical that if you canít catch the disease, you wonít die of it.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Online yelped

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #164 on: May 04, 2020, 01:26:19 PM »
Halacha certainly changes by location, if there is more danger in one place Halacha would change accordingly. Misinformed statement number 1.Agenda? We are talking about paskening a Halacha for the tzibur on a questionable subject which is up for debate. Did the Chofetz Chaim have an agenda when he published Mishna Berura?Source? I maintain 315% of poskim say no minyanThere is so much wrong with this post I could spend hours, but Iíll spare you. Here are 3 thoughts, though.

A) You couldnít be more wrong about my political beliefs and viewing/listening habits. So much for your generalizations and assumptions.

B) Please quote one post where I didnít acknowledge there being two sides to the METHOD of approaching this. I explicitly posted that I davened with a minyan today. If you claim that there are those who disagree as to the inherent danger, youíll have to do more than just label us all CNN watchers (is that a dirty word now?). Iíll use the deaths of my grandmother, childrenís pediatrician, 2 close family friends, and over a dozen friends and family members of mine sitting Shiva as proof off the REAL, ACTUAL DANGER. Your turn. I bless you that you never feel the extent of the devastation I have.

C) There is absolutely no ďscienceĒ in the world that questions this. Youíll need to back yourself up if you claim there is. Rush and Hannity doesnít count as scientists. Every single country in the world that has been hit has adopted social distancing measures, some to a greater extent than others. Itíll interest you to find out that there is a direct correlation between firm, decisive, early lockdowns and low death rates, not that you would need evidence, as itís also inherently logical that if you canít catch the disease, you wonít die of it.
Wait, there's halacha, logic and science here? You guys are just all liberals with an agenda.

Offline S209

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #165 on: May 04, 2020, 01:27:08 PM »
Wow, this shows how clueless you are. Please keep your narishkeit in Lakewood.
Uncalled for. Lakewood was the strictest early on about social distancing of all Orthodox Jewish communities Iíve encountered. We shut it down well and werenít davening with any minyanim for weeks. Even now, only ultra safe porch minyanim or backyard minyanim are going on, with exactly 10 and max 3 families at separate sections of the backyard. You can debate the extent of restrictions but please donít say ďgo back to LakewoodĒ as if itís some type of insult.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #166 on: May 04, 2020, 01:31:46 PM »
Lakewood was the strictest early on about social distancing of all Orthodox Jewish communities Iíve encountered.
Not to distract from the thrust of your reply (which I agree with), but please list the communities you're including with the latter half of your statement. There's more to the Jewish world than Brooklyn, Monsey, and Lakewood.

Online yelped

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #167 on: May 04, 2020, 01:33:19 PM »
Uncalled for. Lakewood was the strictest early on about social distancing of all Orthodox Jewish communities Iíve encountered. We shut it down well and werenít davening with any minyanim for weeks. Even now, only ultra safe porch minyanim or backyard minyanim are going on, with exactly 10 and max 3 families at separate sections of the backyard. You can debate the extent of restrictions but please donít say ďgo back to LakewoodĒ as if itís some type of insult.
Agreed, but Lakewood wasn't the earliest, though.

Offline S209

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #168 on: May 04, 2020, 01:37:12 PM »
Not to distract from the thrust of your reply (which I agree with), but please list the communities you're including with the latter half of your statement. There's more to the Jewish world than Brooklyn, Monsey, and Lakewood.
I included the qualifier *Iíve encountered.* Iíve been in touch with people from Monsey, Flatbush, Boro Park, Williamsburg, KJ, Twin Rivers, Passaic, Fallsburg, and Far Rockaway, and I believe Lakewood was the only place to shut down schools and minyanim before any reported serious illnesses and deaths here. I may be wrong, but the situation was certainly taken very seriously here.

ETA: it seems some other places were earlier, but my point still stands.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #169 on: May 04, 2020, 02:22:32 PM »
I included the qualifier *Iíve encountered.* Iíve been in touch with people from Monsey, Flatbush, Boro Park, Williamsburg, KJ, Twin Rivers, Passaic, Fallsburg, and Far Rockaway, and I believe Lakewood was the only place to shut down schools and minyanim before any reported serious illnesses and deaths here. I may be wrong, but the situation was certainly taken very seriously here.

ETA: it seems some other places were earlier, but my point still stands.
Glad your showing off your ignorance in a way everyone can see it.

Far Rockaway and the Five Towns closed before Lakewood.Both Shuls and schools. It was the Friday before public schools closed. Passaic also closed before Lakewood. Brooklyn was spotty. The Sefardim closed before Lakewood too. Lakewood only closed when they were required to by law.

As you might not be aware, right now Five Towns/ Far Rockaway is doing much better than most other places in the region. Numbers are all the way down. And we are still the only place where the anti-minyan activists are going full force.

In addition, you don't belong on this thread if you live in Lakewood. Besides the fact, you simply don't understand the argument. According to Rabbi/Dr. Glatt, and according to some of our local Rabbis, you committed a grave sin by davening with a minyan this morning. Nobody believes you can violate the social distancing rules required by law. The question is to add additional takanos. As I said, either you didn't read the thread, or you simply don't understand what you read.

Offline JMHO

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #170 on: May 04, 2020, 02:31:20 PM »
Ok, I think it's time to move on.

Has anyone heard the Bingo rumors?

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #171 on: May 04, 2020, 02:32:30 PM »
As you might not be aware, right now Five Towns/ Far Rockaway is doing much better than most other places in the region. Numbers are all the way down. And we are still the only place where the anti-minyan activists are going full force.
Right, so now you want the death rate to go up? 🤔

Offline Jellybelly

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #172 on: May 04, 2020, 02:33:47 PM »
Right, so now you want the death rate to go up? 🤔
Has it gone up in lkwd in the last couple weeks? 🤔
« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 02:37:24 PM by Jellybelly »

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #173 on: May 04, 2020, 02:53:35 PM »
Glad your showing off your ignorance in a way everyone can see it.

Far Rockaway and the Five Towns closed before Lakewood.Both Shuls and schools. It was the Friday before public schools closed. Passaic also closed before Lakewood. Brooklyn was spotty. The Sefardim closed before Lakewood too. Lakewood only closed when they were required to by law.

As you might not be aware, right now Five Towns/ Far Rockaway is doing much better than most other places in the region. Numbers are all the way down. And we are still the only place where the anti-minyan activists are going full force.

In addition, you don't belong on this thread if you live in Lakewood. Besides the fact, you simply don't understand the argument. According to Rabbi/Dr. Glatt, and according to some of our local Rabbis, you committed a grave sin by davening with a minyan this morning. Nobody believes you can violate the social distancing rules required by law. The question is to add additional takanos. As I said, either you didn't read the thread, or you simply don't understand what you read.

You are the from the funniest people on this forum - you admit these five towns is doing much better that other regions but then want to adopt the practices of the other regions. I love it. Every singe on of your posts are pure gold.

Offline yaakov35

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #174 on: May 04, 2020, 02:53:48 PM »
Glad your showing off your ignorance in a way everyone can see it.

Far Rockaway and the Five Towns closed before Lakewood.Both Shuls and schools. It was the Friday before public schools closed. Passaic also closed before Lakewood. Brooklyn was spotty. The Sefardim closed before Lakewood too. Lakewood only closed when they were required to by law.

As you might not be aware, right now Five Towns/ Far Rockaway is doing much better than most other places in the region. Numbers are all the way down. And we are still the only place where the anti-minyan activists are going full force.

In addition, you don't belong on this thread if you live in Lakewood. Besides the fact, you simply don't understand the argument. According to Rabbi/Dr. Glatt, and according to some of our local Rabbis, you committed a grave sin by davening with a minyan this morning. Nobody believes you can violate the social distancing rules required by law. The question is to add additional takanos. As I said, either you didn't read the thread, or you simply don't understand what you read.
5 towns was closed before most places in tri-state thats 100% true. They did get hit very hard originally but now its quiet. And I can back you up that a very large number of rabbanim are pro minyan and just aren't interested in the politics behind it. My brother is a very close Talmid of R Jaeger and he told me that the rosh yeshiva is being very protective about this situation because he's very close to it and feels a huge responsibility. But otherwise lots of local rabbanim are giving the go ahead to outdoor minyanim. And if someone doesn't know the exact details of the happenings in the 5ts community, Idk why they would be commenting here.
And anyone davening with a minyan now, no matter the circumstance should stop complaining.

Offline Mootkim

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #175 on: May 04, 2020, 03:53:12 PM »
Just read through a lot of the back and forth and I wanted to put in my 2 sense that would answer the burning question here regarding the disparity between the rabbanim saying not to do Minyan while keeping quiet about shopping, pizza, and cleaning help. There is a known rule that when it comes to a Mitzva we are so much more strict about a Safek in Pikuach Nefashos than a random other thing with that same safek. Meaning even with that same safek of PN it could very well be 100% prohibited to do a mitzva such as Davening with a minyan (when the safek exists) and still be 100% permitted to got to a grocery, pizza store, or have cleaning help based on the safek PN (obviously with precations).

There are many proofs to this concept. So I don't think the answer so much is that 2 wrongs don't make a right. Rather, that for a dvar mitzva the rabbanim have to be so much more careful that no problems come out from it.

Offline Iz

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #176 on: May 04, 2020, 04:10:42 PM »
Just read through a lot of the back and forth and I wanted to put in my 2 sense that would answer the burning question here regarding the disparity between the rabbanim saying not to do Minyan while keeping quiet about shopping, pizza, and cleaning help. There is a known rule that when it comes to a Mitzva we are so much more strict about a Safek in Pikuach Nefashos than a random other thing with that same safek. Meaning even with that same safek of PN it could very well be 100% prohibited to do a mitzva such as Davening with a minyan (when the safek exists) and still be 100% permitted to got to a grocery, pizza store, or have cleaning help based on the safek PN (obviously with precations).

There are many proofs to this concept. So I don't think the answer so much is that 2 wrongs don't make a right. Rather, that for a dvar mitzva the rabbanim have to be so much more careful that no problems come out from it.
שנאמר?

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #177 on: May 04, 2020, 04:17:09 PM »
Just read through a lot of the back and forth and I wanted to put in my 2 sense that would answer the burning question here regarding the disparity between the rabbanim saying not to do Minyan while keeping quiet about shopping, pizza, and cleaning help. There is a known rule that when it comes to a Mitzva we are so much more strict about a Safek in Pikuach Nefashos than a random other thing with that same safek. Meaning even with that same safek of PN it could very well be 100% prohibited to do a mitzva such as Davening with a minyan (when the safek exists) and still be 100% permitted to got to a grocery, pizza store, or have cleaning help based on the safek PN (obviously with precations).

There are many proofs to this concept. So I don't think the answer so much is that 2 wrongs don't make a right. Rather, that for a dvar mitzva the rabbanim have to be so much more careful that no problems come out from it.

Usually we say the opposite: שומר מצוה לא ידע דבר רע

See attached K'sav Sofer too

Offline Mootkim

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #178 on: May 04, 2020, 04:17:40 PM »

Offline Mootkim

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #179 on: May 04, 2020, 04:19:56 PM »
Usually we say the opposite: שומר מצוה לא ידע דבר רע

See attached K'sav Sofer too
So why can someone break their fast on Yom Kippur for a minute safek safek PN? Why not say Shomer Mitzva...?